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Passed (too) two!

I have been laying low regarding two skill tests that I passed on May 12th and 19th respectively, because I wanted to get the new license with the new ratings before I said anything – just in case a last minute administrative snafu would occur. When getting back from work this evening I found an envelope from NO CAA in my mailbox containing this:

On May 12th I passed the IR skill test for converting my FAA IR to EASA.
On May 19th I passed the EASA MEP skill test.

The MEP posed no administrative difficulties, but the IR conversion was a little more complicated. First of all, since Norway is not a member of the European Union, I first had to wait for EU Commission regulation 245/2014 to be adopted in Norway which finally took place on December 16th 2014.Then the NO CAA at first asked for proof of training received from an FTO, and the whole conversion process was new to them. I had a couple of conversations and mail exchanges with training inspectors, but did not feel I had any difficulties in convincing them that I did not require any training because I had the required IFR experience. So I was pretty much the first to convert from FAA IR based upon EU regulation 245/2014

Actually the most complicated part of the process was to find an examiner in France who was willing to be bothered with unfamiliar administrative procedures, and communicating with a foreign NAA in English. The procedure is quite simple, though. The Norwegians do not require anything else from the examiner than that he sends an e-mail with some information about himself and the candidate, as well as the rating sought to NO CAA, and in return he/she gets an automated e-mail confirming the designation. As opposed to Norway, France requires that the foreign examiner registers on a web site, pays a fee and then has to wait for a month until the list of authorized examiners with his name on it is published before he can perform the skill test.

I found a very nice Italian examiner instructing at a club at Toussus. Unfortunately it seems like he will not be around for very long, so I’ll have to find someone else for the renewals.

Now that I have the MEP and the IR-SE, I’ll need to get the IR-ME so that I can renew both ratings in one go.

As others have reported, I too have the CB-IR in the remarks section.

Last Edited by at 16 Jul 18:23
LFPT, LFPN

Congratulations, Aviathor It’s always a great feeling to get yet another paper collection job finished.

I too have the CB-IR in the remarks section.

That is slightly worrying and I wonder why they do it. Reasons could be

  1. not realising it is a standard ICAO IR (how dumb would they be?)
  2. showing it as such (a “private IR”) to enable some restrictions to be imposed one day
  3. showing it as such to show that the 14 ATPL exams were not done, to make sure that if you do a CPL later you do get into the special dead-end CPL/IR which can never become an ATPL

The 2nd one would need a degree of paranoia, because they are not the only CAA to have done this, which would suggest an under the table agreement to keep the route open to limiting private pilots in some ways.

The last one is not based on logic because the 7 JAA PPL/IR exams were not (in most of Europe, anyway, AFAIK) any subset of the 14 ATPL exams (HP&L excepted) either. Yet the 7-exam JAA IR was never showed differently on the license.

However, I am informed by someone close to the system that in general no records are kept within the CAAs of IR or CPL exam passes, so you could just claim you passed the 7 IR or the 13 CPL exams and nobody would be able to check it, years later. So maybe they are doing this to make sure that the “7-exam people” are permanently “marked”, having missed the opportunity to do this in the JAA days.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Wasn’t it so that training towards the CB-IR, and experience gained from it cannot be used towards a CPL-IR? In other words a PPL withCB-IR would need to do the IR all over again should he want to pursue a CPL/ATPL?

In that case wouldn’t the obvious reason for that be to preserve the ATO business?

LFPT, LFPN

Congrats Aviathor

EIWT Weston

Congrats.

From EASA: There is no rating called cbr-ir! It is an IR, CBR is just a way to get it.

EGBE - Coventry

Congrats!

Wasn’t it so that training towards the CB-IR, and experience gained from it cannot be used towards a CPL-IR? In other words a PPL withCB-IR would need to do the IR all over again should he want to pursue a CPL/ATPL?

You absolutely can now go on and do the EASA CPL, 13 exams and the training and the CPL test.

Then you will have a CPL/IR.

But, because

  • the 7 CB IR exams you have done are not a subset of the 14 ATPL exams (except HP&L), and
  • the 13 CPL exams you will do for the CPL are not a subset of the 14 ATPL exams (except HP&L and Met)

your CPL/IR, while in every respect being a CPL/IR, cannot be used to gain an ATPL (done via the standard EASA route of starting with a CPL/IR and logging 1500hrs of which 500 are in a multi pilot cockpit).

So if you want the ATPL, you will need to do the 14 ATPL exams! (Except HP&L and Met so “only” 12 ) and then get a RHS job with a jet operator, unless you are John Travolta in which case you can do the 500hrs in a sim.

I hope I got this right… the point I was trying to make earlier is that the situation has not changed at all since the JAA PPL/IR, which started around 2000, yet that one was marked in your license as “IR” not “PPL/IR” etc etc. I did mine in 2011 and it is marked “IR”

I can fully understand ATO business protection but why do it now and not in year 2000? The 7 old JAA/IR exams were not a subset of the 14 either (except, again HP&L).

I have a feeling the reason is that the “system” realised that nobody keeps track of old exam passes, not least because you can sit them anywhere in EASA-land, so this is done to prevent cheating. But it could also be the old fear of “the skies filling up with Cessna 150s” as a result of the CB IR… I have heard that one in various ATC presentations. They used to say that about VLJs but I think everybody has now realised that is a dead horse.

The bigger Q is why would you want an ATPL?

  • to get a job with a company that requires it
  • to be LHS in a transport jet (Part 25 only maybe?)
  • the 14 ATPL exam passes are a way to get the HPA (needed for privately flown turboprops and jets, April 2016 on)
  • to be the most qualified instructor in a flying school, when competing for students
  • to satisfy your sado masochistic inner self

Realistically I cannot see any PPL-only pilot aged anywhere near 50 wanting the full 14-exam ATPL – because they are too old to get a job that needs it.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I would do the full ATPL exams (for the final reason in your list) if it was possible through self-study without involving an approved ground school.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Bravo !

FAA A&P/IA
LFPN

showing it as such to show that the 14 ATPL exams were not done, to make sure that if you do a CPL later you do get into the special dead-end CPL/IR which can never become an ATPL

This is actually shown in the “remarks” section (XIII) of the license.

I agree that nothing should be shown apart from IR. An IR is an IR is an IR.

London area
12 Posts
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