Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Trapped above icing conditions in a Lancair

He told the controller he wanted an IFR clearance to VFR On Top….which is still an IFR clearance..
YPJT, United Arab Emirates

I’m no expert on the subject, but I found the pilot’s ‘VFR’ requests to ATC interesting… He initially asks for VFR Flight Following (“VFR Request” being the standard US terminology to request Flight Following in VMC) when he really wants IFR, then later when he wants to descend through a small hole in the clouds he initially requests Special VFR for which it seems to me he was probably not eligible based on his position (?)

Otherwise the pilot seems to me a guy who knows what is he doing (taking a high level of risk, intentionally pushing limits of aircraft, weather and ATC capability) and is comfortable with it. Some people are like that and they sometimes come to grief, but I believe somebody (in general other than me ) pushing limits to see what really happens is useful. I think a guy like that is also the kind of guy who flies a Lancair (especially IFR), who makes his plane into a movie studio, and who publishes the results. I’m glad there are people like that, because it probably won’t be me!

Last Edited by Silvaire at 21 Jan 16:51

when he wants to descend through a small hole in the clouds he initially requests Special VFR for which it seems to me he was probably not eligible based on his position

I too didn’t understand that. I have never requested SVFR in my 17 years of flying and don’t know what purpose it serves (other than, in the old days, of getting into the Channel Islands Class A without a full IR) but I have always thought that SVFR requires you to be away from cloud.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I assumed the request for SVFR implied that he was in terminal airspace of some sort. If I recall properly, the only requirement is that you be clear of clouds. Perhaps he was trying to imply that he was not observing distance from cloud rules, but was staying clear. But the request would only make sense if he were in controlled airspace near some airport because I believe it’s usually used to come in an land when you are in marginal (or submarginal) conditions. If makes for a legal VFR approach when conditions are no longer VFR but you can stay in VMC. Or so I believe. Too lazy to check the regs.

Last Edited by WhiskeyPapa at 21 Jan 17:06
Tököl LHTL

Terminal airspace and Special VFR clearances extend to 10,000 feet.

The pilot, Keith Smith has not long been IFR qualified as far as I can tell…. he initially requested and received an IFR clearance to VFR on Top…, Perhaps, due to his inexperience he didn’t realize that all he needed to do was inform the controller that he was no longer able to maintain VFR and he would have been able to resume IFR….he did not need a new IFR. clearance ad he was always on an IFR clearance… of course none of that is applicable in Europe which does not have the concept of VFR on Top…

[edit] I just watched it again and he did indeed cancel his IFR clearance…which was unnecessary…he could have kept in the system with his VFR on Top IFR clearance….

[2nd edit] …and it seems Keith is a “highly experienced IFR pilot and former editor of IFR Magazine”….

Last Edited by AnthonyQ at 21 Jan 18:00
YPJT, United Arab Emirates

I personally think he flew the aircraft quite well apart from his spiral dive, where he still remained well within the green arc, to get VMC below. Airmanship is something we develop with time and I’m sure he learnt a few valuable lessons. I’ll bet there are a few here who have made similar errors of judgement.

Fly safely
Various UK. Operate throughout Europe and Middle East, United Kingdom

AnthonyQ wrote:

I just watched it again and he did indeed cancel his IFR clearance…which was unnecessary…he could have kept in the system with his VFR on Top IFR clearance….

Indeed. In fact when initially asked if he was asking for an IFR clearance (just after departure), he said immediately at that point that he intended to cancel his IFR clearance once on top. Why do that? And if you intend to cancel IFR completely once on top, then why ask for VFR on Top anyway? I think he meant to not cancel IFR, and just use VFR on Top for altitude flexibility while remaining under an IFR clearance?

Peter wrote:

I too didn’t understand that. I have never requested SVFR in my 17 years of flying

I think he was trying to suggest that he could accept SVFR rather than IFR (to reduce time waiting for the clearance). In reality he was already below VFR minima (too near to the clouds), but SVFR was suspect because although he could claim he was clear of cloud and within the visibility minima for SVFR, it is very doubtful that he would remain entirely clear of cloud in the descent. And he was above 10k at that point too I think.

I also wonder how he knew of his position once he started steering around all over the place, other than via ForeFlight.

somehow you lsost me. There is no SVFR outside a CTR and he wasn’t in in a CTR? Or is there anything I’m getting completely wrong?

EDFM (Mannheim), Germany

He’s a brave man to post those flights! I think of of some of my travels & the discussion that would ensue if people could watch and listen!

Tököl LHTL
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top