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Mandatory PBN training (merged)

Vref wrote:

This question can be asked the same for a SID which is programmed into the KLN90B without the RF leg if you follow that then you immediately turn in stead of flying the RF leg available on WAAS (SBAS) box…

The KLN90B won’t have any RNAV 1 or RNP 1 SID/STAR in its database and is not authorized to fly them. In the US, we have plenty of SIDs and STARs with RNAV 1 and those very few that have an RF leg are listed as RNP 1 required.

KUZA, United States

The KLN94 doesn’t have the RNAV1 procedures either but for some strange reason it has all the waypoints so you can load them manually

You can load them into a little “flight plan” and create a few of these “collections” so if the airport switches the one you expected, you just load the other flight plan and do a DCT to the 1st waypoint.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

An installation that has an altitude input is more typical with a glass PFD which has ADHRS type digital outputs whereas a typical steam gage panel is not likely to have this. With the latter, you get multiple suspends, one at the MAP, and once you unsuspend, another if an altitude must be achieved before a turn.

Thanks, I used to treat GNS530W vs G1000W as “similar” but indeed they will behave differently in that scenario

Last Edited by Ibra at 06 Jan 18:23
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

An installation that has an altitude input is more typical with a glass PFD which has ADHRS type digital outputs whereas a typical steam gage panel is not likely to have this.

The KLN94 requires a baro input to carry out the RAIM in the run up to the FAF, without baro input it is not approved for approaches, albeit LNAV only. You also have to set QNH when loading the approach.

While the KLN94 it doesn’t have a suspend mode, when passing the MApt and going missed, you need to go direct to the next waypoint and the missed approach loads. The reason for suspend at the MApt is that you want lateral guidance in approach mode if you are continuing, hence the GPS not automatically sequencing to the missed approach. Grammatically the SUSP button might correctly be the un-suspend button, all it is telling you is that the approach sequence has stopped at the MApt and the FPL is suspended.

Each IFR GPS has its quirks, unlike the old VOR/LOC boxes.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

NCYankee wrote:

The AFMS for an IFR certified GPS is a supplement to the Airplane Flight Manual and will have a limitations section. In US, they are required to be FAA approved and are regulatory.

Here the AFMS is approved by EASA. My understanding is that the limitations section is regulatory also for EASA aircraft although I can’t find the rule that says so…

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

RobertL18C wrote:

While the KLN94 it doesn’t have a suspend mode, when passing the MApt and going missed, you need to go direct to the next waypoint and the missed approach loads. The reason for suspend at the MApt is that you want lateral guidance in approach mode if you are continuing, hence the GPS not automatically sequencing to the missed approach. Grammatically the SUSP button might correctly be the un-suspend button, all it is telling you is that the approach sequence has stopped at the MApt and the FPL is suspended.

That is the suspend mode, isn’t it?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Ibra wrote:

currently someone operating NCO can’t treat RNP LPV as precision with available LNAV or SBAS during planning: 1/ they have to plan CONV at destination/alternates or ensure good weather prevails and 2/ they have to ensure TAF ceiling > LNAV MDH at destination or > LNAV MDH+200ft at alternate (+1000m on visibility)

I’m not sure what you’re saying. You treat an LPV the same as an ILS during planning. The only thing is that either the destination or the alternate must have an approach which does not depend on PBN.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I’m not sure what you’re saying. You treat an LPV the same as an ILS during planning

Are you sure? don’t you have to degrade LPV to LNAV during planning? say alternate is LPV200 (or LNAV400) and destination is NDB500

For sake of simplicity let’s say they have same ceilings in TAF/MET, can I depart with 100ft ceiling? 200ft? 300ft? 400ft? 500?

Last Edited by Ibra at 06 Jan 21:58
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Airborne_Again wrote:

The only thing is that either the destination or the alternate must have an approach which does not depend on PBN.

Is that an EASA or European requirement? In the US, the alternate may be based on GPS if the Nav system is SBAS. For TSO C129a systems, it is as you stated in the US, destination or alternate must have no GPS dependency, including GPS substitution. The SBAS alternate must be based on 800-2 of an approach with an LNAV option, even if it has an LPV200 on the same procedure.

KUZA, United States

NCYankee wrote:

The KLN90B won’t have any RNAV 1 or RNP 1 SID/STAR in its database and is not authorized to fly them. In the US, we have plenty of SIDs and STARs with RNAV 1 and those very few that have an RF leg are listed as RNP 1 required.

Yes…but it had for sure the SID (classical no RNP1) but not the correct coding for this specific SID…..For another airport ELLX RWY24 DIK5E in the neighborhood with a similar classical SID the turn is coded when passing the NDB…I think there was a data base coding error ……..For EDDR there are RNP 1 and a classical SID look alikes for RWY09….Since then I am very careful when using the KLN for any SID. Maybe time to replace it with Garmin GPS175 …:-)

EBST
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