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Fuel duty drawback (reclaim)

In my business we pay GBP 6 at our end on received € payments. The Euroland payer pays about another €6 at his end. The payments are normally of the order of €1000 so it doesn’t matter.

Smaller amounts are paid by credit card so we get the full amount minus 1.8%, regardless of where the payer is. It is the payer who gets shafted on those

Most of the world doesn’t use the € so one sees higher charges, as a part of the cost of doing international trade.

A far bigger cost of doing international trade is that it is much more competitive than domestic trade – it’s full of fairly sharp people (and some conmen). Many years ago I saw a UK survey which found that a company which won the Queen’s Award for Export Achievement was 5x more likely to go bust than another company in the same business sector

Back to the subject, I am going to just use the paper forms. The online site is really crap; it is broken even on the use of the cursor which doesn’t advance to the next field, after you have gone past the first page! I don’t think most people realise it isn’t a submission site at all…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

For international business transfers, why not use Kantox (which is like Transferwise for businesses). 0.2% all in from mid (including foreign exchange costs)and no fee on your bank side as it all appears like a GBP transaction.

Disclosure: I have an interest in Kantox. And mods, please feel free to delete if it’s too much of a plug, of course.

Last Edited by denopa at 18 Jun 11:51
EGTF, LFTF

I have just done mine – last 2 years. It took all day, but it was worth it. It did remind me of a lot of great trips

But I realised that many people must be under-claiming. Basically, anybody who has returned from overseas very recently, and bought only a little fuel (in the UK) before going overseas again, is probably under-claiming.

It is obvious, from the layout of the form, that Customs are simply looking for evidence of fuel purchases since the last return from abroad, and before the trip for which you are claiming. Then, you can claim back the lesser of

  1. the fuel purchased between those two dates
  2. the fuel in the tanks when you departed from the UK

I have always done my drawback claims on the above basis, and it’s obviously correct. You can never claim for more than what is in the tanks on departure. And the fuel purchased between the two dates has to be fuel which has not been claimed on before.

Many (probably most) private pilots rarely fly abroad, so for them the fuel purchases since the previous return from abroad will far exceed their tank capacity. So they will just claim for what is in their tanks when they depart. Simple! On a TB20, full tanks, 125 quid.

But if you fly abroad a lot, Item 1 above will be less than the tank capacity, and there could still be some fuel in the tanks which was bought in the UK before the last flight abroad, and which has not been duty claimed because the same rule could not be met on that occassion also.

I think that an exact calculation of the drawback would involve all UK purchases, all foreign purchases, all UK flights, all foreign flights, and you would claim for each departure from the UK just the right amount which has not been claimed for previously, while keeping track of the unclaimed-for fuel on a FIFO basis. The algorithm would be a variation of the one used for FIFO stock valuation (where different quantities were purchased at different prices, etc).

It’s a nontrivial mathematical/logical problem which I can’t get my head around. I am just a simple engineer

Or am I over-thinking it and there is a simple reason why this idea is wrong?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Any views on this one?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

But if you go back far enough, you will get to the stage where you claimed for a full tank, so there won’t be a situation where there’s fuel in the tanks you haven’t claimed for.

Or have I misunderstood the question?

I run a spreadsheet which records fuel uplifts and invoice numbers, which makes it easy to complete the claim form.

Spending too long online
EGTF Fairoaks, EGLL Heathrow, United Kingdom

I always claim the day after my return. The thought of leaving it for two years would give me a headache.In a two year period, the rate of drawback will have changed with the budget, and would need to be researched. I never bother with the section regarding fuel used before departing the UK. I think this is only relevant if you are flying abroad very regularly and could be seen to be using duty free fuel in the UK.

I did ask HMRC about two years back to clarify the question – is the claimback related to the pilot or the aircraft? It is related to the aircraft. Why is this important? Well if you are in a group situation, as I am, or you are a renter, you have to put down the date when the a/c last landed back in UK. Not when you landed back in the UK but the a/c. So if you had various members of a group all claiming d/back, they would have to co-ordinate their dates so that they would not be duplicating claim periods. As far as I know, I have never heard of a case where HMRC delved into claims and disputed the dates in the claim. Another way would be for one member of a group to take responsibility for collecting all the fuel invoices and checking dates etc. All in all quite a task. You can see why the majority don’t bother and why airfields like Lydd will sell you fuel at a reduced rate so they can have a cut of the drawback. Fuel drawback is a small concession to GA that I would be loath to lose.
Propman
Nuthampstead , United Kingdom

I think this is only relevant if you are flying abroad very regularly and could be seen to be using duty free fuel in the UK.

Exactly.

But, flying abroad out of the UK greatly enhances the value of GA

So if you had various members of a group all claiming d/back, they would have to co-ordinate their dates so that they would not be duplicating claim periods. As far as I know, I have never heard of a case where HMRC delved into claims and disputed the dates in the claim. Another way would be for one member of a group to take responsibility for collecting all the fuel invoices and checking dates etc. All in all quite a task.

Yes, and sometimes you get a syndicate member pocketing the drawback for himself When I used to rent out the TB20, I had two people doing that and when I changed the rules so they could not do that (I just gave them the corresponding discount on the fuel bill) they dropped out…

airfields like Lydd will sell you fuel at a reduced rate so they can have a cut of the drawback.

AFAIK Lydd simply doesn’t charge the VAT, for flights leaving the UK. I don’t know what rules allow that and have never met anybody who does, but presumably they have checked it out.

Duty is a different thing. You could depart out of Lydd and save the VAT and do the duty drawback afterwards.

Or have I misunderstood the question?

More likely I failed to get my head around the maths

I still feel there is a scenario where

  1. you fly within the UK for a long time
  2. you do a very short trip abroad
  3. soon afterwards you do another trip abroad

The short gap between 2 an 3 and the resulting very small (or none) fuel purchase wastes a potential duty drawback.

If I am being stupid, feel free to point it out

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

It took all day, but it was worth it.

I thought you just typed it into a spreadsheet – simples.

You need to complete Form HO60 for each flight leaving the UK.

There is an online version now but it doesn’t submit it; stupidly, it asks you the print out the end result and post it to them.

I had about 35 of these forms to do, for past 2 years, and it takes a bit of time to dig out which fuel invoices fall between the two dates, and write out their numbers and the amounts on them.

Perhaps there is a spreadsheet solution but it isn’t obvious to me how to construct it. Obviously, one could create a spreadsheet which, when printed, duplicates the HO60 form, but that would just save the trivial add-up on the form. Has anyone done that? It would still be useful. My Excel skills are really basic.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Fuel drawback flying from Republic of Ireland to UK home base

Hi,

Fuel drawback flying from Republic of Ireland to UK home base

I have been told that if you are flying from the Republic if Ireland (Weston) and returning to the UK (Sleap EGCV) that drawback duty has has been remove.

On the Irish GAR form it does say that I am entitled to buy duty free fuel if I fly out of the Republic of Ireland. However, the airport manager (at Weston) said that they (?) don’t do this anymore.

Can anyone educate me on the latest situation on this one.

Regards John

EGCV Sleap, United Kingdom
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