Saw this in an online magazine, and somehow got to think of this thread 
What bugs me in the whole glass vs analog discussion is the fact that with integrated glass systems as the G1000 is, they have you over a barrell whenever upgrades are necessary. I recall some massive costs involved with getting some G1000 equipped airplanes upgraded to WAAS for instance and I hear similar things about the US requirement of ADS-B with these avionic suites.
We had a massive discussion in the Mooney world about WAAS upgrades for the G1000 equipped Ovations and Acclaims. First it was not available at all and then it cost the proverbial arm and leg (I think around 20k).
Consequently, as an owner, I would avoid airplanes which have a Garmin integrated system like the plague. With a non-integrated system, where EFIS, GNS/GPS and autopilot are separate units, you have a much wider choice of variants if you want to upgrade.
As you know I chose the Aspen EFD1000 for my plane out of budget reasons but also out of the idea that it is the most flexible in terms of upgrades. In terms of usability and in terms of how I like to fly with it, well, it is very nice indeed. I like the altitude and speed tapes, but that may well have to do with the fact that I am quite used to them from years of “flying” heavy jets with similar setups in my simming job. I definitly like the idea of having analogue and EFIS next to each other, not only from the backup point of view but also from the practical side: it makes transition much easier. One day (if that elusive lottery win comes in) I might upgrade to a 2 or 3 screen Aspen suite and possibly a later version GPS System. Again, in a non-integrated system this is relatively easy while it is next to impossible in an integrated system.
I understand that the Avidyne systems are also a lot more flexible in terms of upgrades in so far as they keep the GPS boxes outside the actual system.
Other than that, I find flying an artificial horizon very easy the bigger it is. From that point of view, large sceen Attitude Indicators have a big advantage over comparatively small GA horizons of old. I do remember a discussion also about the large Sperry mechanical ADI’s with FD’s similar to those used in larger jets being installed on the LH side in early Citations for instance vs the smaller gauges on the RH side, which in at least one case was attributed to a loss of control accident here at ZRH. The bigger the ADI the easier to fly it I feel.
I also wonder what will happen to these all glass aircraft once the avionics manufacturer stops supporting a particular generation of screen?
It is not inconceivable that at some point the G1000 and/or Avidyne Entegra will be retired. They are already dated architecture by even Gamin’s own current product offering.
In Avidyne’s case there is probably a chance they will not survive as a company now that Garmin seems to have eaten their lunch in the OEM market, so their products becoming obsolete is another possibility.
Presumably there will be some phased upgrades for a while, but as newer aircraft adopt the most recent models G3000 etc the older product life cycles must be nearing their end?
Having to rip out and replace a G1000 would surely kill off most small GA aircraft?
Food for thought…
E
The bigger Garmin gets, the more the need for alternatives. I get the distinct sense that Avidyne are increasing their sales. Not just because I went that way, but because I see on big US forums like BeechTalk, that the threads with Garmin vs Avidyne always have a very strong following of Avidyne users turning up. Much more than you’d expect.
But of course they are tiny compared to Garmin. But so was Garmin 15 years ago – nobody knew them from a hole in the wall. Now they’re the Apple of avionics. My point being, one manufacturer can’t provide for 100% of the market – there will always be room for some other players.
AdamFrisch wrote:
But of course they are tiny compared to Garmin. But so was Garmin 15 years ago – nobody knew them from a hole in the wall. Now they’re the Apple of avionics. My point being, one manufacturer can’t provide for 100% of the market – there will always be room for some other players.
In the non-certified world, where 95% of all GA glass panels are sold, Garmin is still small. They do indeed have very well thought out, and well built systems (except the G900X). In this market, a glass panel last for 5-10 years. Then they are replaced with newer generations of glass. The latest trend is replacing old glass with small electronic boxes that hooks up to panel mounted Pads for display.
Sandel’s Avilon system is also under development, which seems quite competitive from a price standpoint. Dynon are looking to get approval and STC for their PFD’s, so that will further reduce costs etc.
In the end, it’s the old legacy producers that will need to step up their game or lose the whole plot. Many jet operators/PC12operators are complaining how Collins ProLine systems can cost over $100K just to install simple ADS-B. Something you cab get from a box fro $3-4K. And some don’t even have an upgrade path at all, like the early Beech Premier. I think Honeywell need to watch out. Garmin and Avidyne has already eaten their lunch in GA completely over Bendix/King, and it won’t be long before the Collins line probably is under serious threat.
In the non-certified world, where 95% of all GA glass panels are sold
? ? ? ? ?
The bigger Garmin gets, the more the need for alternatives
Yes, but looking at this from the “business” end rather than the end user end, and having seen this play out many many times in the 39 years I have been in business, it is almost impossible to successfully enter a business in which
which is all a way of saying that there are big barriers to entry, due to most of the installation industry being the blind leading the blind, so the industry plays very safe, and Garmin will gradually take over the GA world.
And before somebody jumps on me, I could tell a few stories but won’t because I have already had one legal threat from the shop which did this and which reads EuroGA regularly It is very easy for people to jump on me because they know I can’t respond.
I don’t like this situation either and neither does anybody else except Garmin, but I don’t see any other long term outcome. IMHO Avidyne is still around only because of their cash cows – mainly the TAS6xx boxes which they bought from Ryan, and the old Cirrus glass repair/service business. Did they ever do their own servos for the DFC90? OK; this is fine… many companies have survived downturns only due to having cash cows (mine included) but in this case the gap seems to be too large to make up.
If you could sell direct to end users then lots would change.
Proline… I don’t know. Experienced bizjet pilots still think it is way ahead of anything from Garmin in terms of sheer usability for IFR flight, where you just fly from A to B airliner-style and don’t mess about.
Having to rip out and replace a G1000 would surely kill off most small GA aircraft?
Too right, but the chickens aren’t going to come home to roost on that one for some years
Anyway, who has a choice? In most cases of newer planes, you have to go for glass. Either Avidyne, who many believe may go bust and will IMHO obsolete any given legacy product before Garmin does, or Garmin.
Peter,
In your TAS 605 report, you mention the ADS-B in issue, with an update in 2015.
Well, I can tell you that even those of us who pre-bought the upgrade in 2014, on a 3-4 month promise, are still waiting in 2017. We keep trying to get answers from Avidyne, but they have gone almost completely silent for the last nine months, with “The project is still a top priority and is currently moving along. Once it is complete we will be sure to post it here as well as informing our dealer network” in Oct 2016 and “Avidyne continues to make progress toward completion of the ADS-B update for the TAS-A product. We will make announcements as additional detail becomes available” in January this year.
In the meantime, the number of aircraft extended squitting their ADS-B position is going up rapidly (as FR24 shows).
This kind of tardiness, failure to deliver and failure to communicate seems to me to be an excellent argument for spending with Garmin rather than Avidyne.
Jesse said here and here they are shipping the ADS-B update for the “A” version of the TAS6xx which is a version which they have been shipping only in the last few years or so.
the number of aircraft extended squitting their ADS-B position is going up rapidly (as FR24 shows).
Light GA?
Virtually all piston traffic on FR24 is Mode S with multilateration.
Garmin is granted by the FAA the regulatory ability to certify their own equipment after extensive testing – very, very few manufacturers have this luxury. It’s called an ODA. So it does take a longer time for all the smaller manufacturers who do not benefit from this favourism. Yes, the Avidyne software certification upgrade has taken too long, and they probably should have held off on announcing it, but that’s the reality for small manufacturers. Will Avidyne survive? Who knows. But I think they have a better chance than Bendix King and Collins, for sure.
