In my hospital we now have a standard operating procedures to wear standard surgical masks at any time we are in contact with any patients. This is meant to both reduce our and the patients’ risk of infection.
When dealing with suspected or confirmed Covid-19 cases, we have to wear FFP2 masks (in the US they call these N95 I think), gloves, eye protection and a single use protective coat. If we perform high risk treatment such as intubation or bronchial endoscopy, we have to wear FFP3 masks (the highest level of protection).
Due to the shortage of these, we already expect to have to “downgrade” to normal surgical masks at some point. These will still offer some degree of protection, while a properly worn FFP2 or even FFP3 mask will offer a high level of protection. But there is no way to reduce the risk of transmission to zero.
Apparently, many of the doctors that died in China and Italy were Ear-Nose-Throat surgeons. This makes sense if one assumes that receiving a higher viral load makes for a more severe infection. The further you are away from the patient’s airway, the safer you are. Beyond 2 m or so the risk is negligible. This is why the average Joe on the street does not need a mask in places were that distance can be easily kept.
MedEwok wrote:
This is why the average Joe on the street does not need a mask in places were that distance can be easily kept.
That has been the argument presented and in terms of protecting yourself it makes sense.
However: what about in environments like food stores, public transport e.t.c.
I see several advantages if people mask themselfs:
- Unknowingly infected people will spread considerably less droplets. That would also mean over merchandise they don’t actually touch.
- In shops very often the 2m radius won’t be kept strictly out of carelessnes or due to tight spaces.
- even imperfect masks will keep back a lot of droplets emitted during normal speaking e.t.c.
It may not be the bee’s knees but anything which reduces the amount of infections?
BG and AT have now mandated them.
I generally agree with you on the matter, Urs, but think that one needs to ensure the general population has access to these masks at adequately low prices or ideally for free, without this endangering their availability for healthcare professionals. Currently the logistics of sourcing these masks are difficult, and quite a few a**holes try to make a lot of money from selling them at absurd prices. Normally these are worth a few cents each.
In an ideal world everybody to wear a respiratory FFP mask that prevent them from spreading and getting the hit, but only we go to work like normal, wash our hands and disinfect everything like doctors 
In today’s world with shortage of dust/FFP masks, most people are sitting at their home or rarely exposed unless they choose to do so, so they can wear paper masks to give them some peace of mind on protection (but importantly stop spreading) but we expect them to leave respiratory the few protection available to heath workers who are now wearing paper masks or nothing (that worries me more than me or people not wearing masks in a shop or a bus)
MedEwok wrote:
I generally agree with you on the matter, Urs, but think that one needs to ensure the general population has access to these masks at adequately low prices or ideally for free, without this endangering their availability for healthcare professionals.
Absolutely, and that is why a lot of officials have been very busy spreading the theory that masks for the population “will not protect you”. While this is technically correct, it is mainly politics and therefore a thick lie to prevent shortages. They make people not want them even though they know that it would help.
My personal expectation is that mask production will skyrocket in the next weeks and months and the moment masks are available on a broad scale, the law will come into force mandating masks for everyone everywhere and that is when quite a few restrictions will be lifted. Like in China and Japan, where this seems to work quite well.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Absolutely, and that is why a lot of officials have been very busy spreading the theory that masks for the population “will not protect you”. While this is technically correct, it is mainly politics and therefore a thick lie to prevent shortages. They make people not want them even though they know that it would help.
Yeah, that also bugs me. The politicians should trust the populace more. I’m sure if they were open and upfront about the matter, saying “these masks might help you reduce the risk of infection, but we need them in the hospitals now. We will try to make more of them available to the general public as soon as possible!” most people would understand that and act accordingly.
And even with the masks, it still makes sense to keep a distance from each other. That might be another reason why the masks were “talked down” because officials are afraid that people will then no longer keep to social distancing rules due to a false sense of security.
MedEwok wrote:
most people would understand that and act accordingly.
That is theory unfortunately. See toilet paper and other mass buying. NO, they will not understand. Here many doctors and hospitals wrote about people stealing all materials in sight during the first few days of this before they locked it down. People have no morals in an emergency, at least 90% don’t.
MedEwok wrote:
That might be another reason why the masks were “talked down” because officials are afraid that people will then no longer keep to social distancing rules due to a false sense of security.
Well, the thing is, people see it wrong and it will always be beyond their comprehension. Masks do NOT protect THEM, they protect everyone else. But if everyone wears them, and only then, the factor is immense. See Japan, see Korea, see elsewhere.
What needs to be done is to mandate masks and impose fines initially and make it socially inacceptable for anyone who appears outside without them as well as make the retraction of some of the restrictions which noch bug our lifes dependent on strict compliance. All the mandates need to be enforced strictly, otherwise people don’t do it. What happens in the UK now, with police fining, people reporting on each other, is a consequence of that. And in the end, the only thing which really works in an emergency.
I expect that Switzerland will go into full lockdown over Easter to prevent the fools to leave the house. Including food stores and whatever other excuses people come up with to defy the law.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Masks do NOT protect THEM, they protect everyone else.
Except they don’t! If your asymptomatic you will definitely spread the disease. If your symptomatic you should not be in a crowded place like a supermarket, mask or not.
To suggest that wearing masks will solve the problem is simply irresponsible and causes unnecessary panic, when actually a real solution needs to be found.
MedEwok wrote:
“these masks might help you reduce the risk of infection,
A piece of cloth with two strings will also be just as effective in appropriate circumstances, a high grade mask, that aren’t used properly, i.e. replaced after contamination, and hands constantlys kept clean are a waste of resources and are just dancing around the problem.
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Just fyi, in Slovakia the official message (actually, the current regulation):
- anywhere outside, wear a mask, if you don’t have one, at least a home-made one/scarf/buff
- it is forbidden to sell respirators (FFP), that is reserved for medical professionals
– if you already have some, you are encouraged (not forced) to give them up for medical professionals
– but if you wear it outside, wear a mask over it (the outflow from the respirators is not filtered)
Surprisingly, the situation here is still rather good, in fact the best among the neighbouring countries. Helped by relatively early closures.
The current situation and approach in Slovakia is rather unique:
- closed schools, restaurants, all public events (including churches), most shops, all shopping malls
- however, in addition to groceries, pharmacies, post offices and few other essential services, several other services (optics, lawyers/notaries, gardening stores, hardware stores, bicykle stores/repair..) were allowed to open, under the condition that strict hygiene measures are followed (1 customer per 25m^2 of space, hand disinfectants/gloves near entrance) … this applies to grocery stores as well.
No formal restrictions on going out of your house/apartment, but discouraged. Still, people flock out to popular walks/trails, although many try to spread it out.
We will see how this works out. In general, people support the measures, no incidents with over-aggressive police reported so far. I think people appreciate we are in much better shape, and hope it will remain so (including the less strict lockdown). Time will tell.
Ted wrote:
Masks do NOT protect THEM, they protect everyone else.Except they don’t! If your asymptomatic you will definitely spread the disease.
?
You wear the mask even if you are asymptomatic. Even if you don’t cough/sneeze, you are still emitting droplets, just a bit less so (some people speaking emit quite a lot…).
The numbers matter – due to the exponential nature, reducing the transmission by 20/30/50/80% reduces the spreading quite significantly, possibly even getting R0 below 1. So, even if your mask does not stop 100% of your emission, maybe not even 80%, that still can make quite a significant difference.
