Mooney_Driver wrote:
People who have recovered are protected by the antibodies for between 3 and 6 months, those who are vaccinated for about a year.
But antibodies are not the only protective mechanism of the immune system. There are e.g. T-cells, which are very difficult to test for so that is almost only done in a research context. We already know from studies that T-cells remain in the body much longer than antibodies, possibly indefinitely.
I had my third vaccination today The first two were Asra-Zeneca, This one was Comirnaty – mRNA by Biontech Pfizer. Flu vax in left shoulder, Covid in right shoulder. No ill effects so far.
Below is 1/2 page advert from the local Northern Scot Newspaper, today. I can’t blame people for being persuaded to not get vaccinated with this publicity.
Airborne_Again wrote:
But antibodies are not the only protective mechanism of the immune system. There are e.g. T-cells, which are very difficult to test for so that is almost only done in a research context. We already know from studies that T-cells remain in the body much longer than antibodies, possibly indefinitely.
Which would be good news I guess.
Some Scottish newspaper actually ran that advert? That is unbelievable. That is an astronomical level of stupidity. It’s going to be nanoparticles next.
Re the immunity, I don’t buy any of the 3-6 month stuff. The UK is currently showing ~1% infected but low hospital numbers. It doesn’t add up at all. Immunity must be much better. As to why Bulgaria is doing so badly, that’s obvious: several tens of % of anti vaccers. Like Croatia, with around 40%.
Graham wrote:
Where I think we differ is that I believe it is a government role to educate with regard to vaccines, but you believe education is not enough and the government should coerce or de facto compel? Essentially I am pro-choice, and you are not.
The governments have tried that and failed, because the trust in most governments is gone with many people, I´d say up to 30% in general, more in this question.
We are not that different. Yes, I am pro choice as well, but I am desparing at the ignorance in the case of covid which makes people make the worst possible choice they can. I am despairing at the politisation of this crisis which has lead to people rejecting the one solution dancing in front of their noses.
I am for certification because it allows those who will make their contribution to the ending of this crisis to leave a normal life, or something akin to it. Those who choose not to participate must take the consequences, that is a choice also.
You are free to chose a lot of things these days. Choices however always include consequences, some good some adverse. That is part of freedom and it´s brother, responsibility.
Freedom stops when it injures or adversely affects others. That is why certain regulations are needed to stop people from killing each other but rather live by those rules and halfways get along. Staying unvaccinated in this situation or refusing to take their share to get back to normal constitutes such a choice which adversely affects just about everyone around as it prolongs the crisis and may cause avoidable illness and deaths. Under normal circumstances, refusal to take measures to avoid the above is considered at least negligence or even wilful damage. Why this does not go into people´s head is totally beyond me.
If people would participate in fighting this crisis, we would not need certificates. In fact, if people had not been so goddamm egoistic from the outset and drum the freedom drum, this whole crisis would have been over in 2020.
gallois wrote:
@Graham are you claiming that those 140,000 people who have died woulf have died when they did if Covid never existed?
@Graham asked
Not at all, why should you say that?
Well you wrote that most of the 140 000 deaths recorded as Covid deaths were in people with comorbidities who would most likely have died anyway. Or at least it seemed to me that that is what you were suggesting.
But everybody is going to die sometime, it’s a fact of life. The question in my mind is when.
If there had not been any Covid would this 140,000 have lived for a further 1 year, 3years 5years 10years? The answer is we do not know.
But what we do know is that there is Covid and the 140,000 died within 28 days of contracting it.
In my mind they are therefore deaths due to Covid, unless you can show that the people who died would have died at exactly the same time if there had been no Covid.
Maybe one of the docs here who know their history of medicine can explain something to me.
Today, a lot of illnesses which plagues our fathers and grandfathers are gone thanks to vaccinations. I have grown up with those and am thankful I do not run the risk of catching Tuberculosis, child paralysis, Tetanus and whatever else we managed to eradicate.
How is it that people today are willing to accept huge personal damage up to death before they would get vaccinated against the most dangerous disease that has appeared since all the above are mostly gone? What has changed? Why were the people in the ages when the vaccination against Tetanus, Measels, TB and other horriffic past diseases came up were more than ready to get vaccinated to rid humankind of those plagues?
Is it just the Internet with it´s fake news and conspiracy nutters? If not, then what makes this fundamentalis behaviour?
Mainly, the vaccinations are not mandatory today.
When I was at school, they lined the whole school up and did the lot.
Unfortunately for some reason I didn’t get the measles one and that cost me a LOT. And today loads of “parents” don’t measles-vacc their kids… The price will be paid by the kids.
Yes; the internet doesn’t help because it enables easy spread of garbage, and stupid people swallow it.
Three quotes from Dwight Eisenhower capture the hardening of opposition to government attempts to maximize CV-19 vaccination.
“Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done because he wants to do it”
and
“You do not lead by hitting people over the head – that’s assault, not leadership”
and
“Pull the string, and it will follow wherever you wish. Push it, and it will go nowhere at all”
Getting things done with people requires that you show them respect as adults, and never stop doing so, regardless of how superior you may or may not think you are. You do not lead free people by treating them as misbehaving children in your state dictated nursery. Government at every level has demonstrated the most completely, mind bogglingly ineffective leadership in this situation I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. Whether they really are fascists, but are so naive that they think people can’t see it is open to question. I’ve proposed that to others and they’ve opined that its not malice, but simply the total incompetence of people who weren’t looking for a leadership role being forced into it by circumstances . Either way, they aren’t leaders and what they now have is what they’ve created.
