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France "Citizen's Climate Convention"

By all means. I can point them in the direction of several airfields within 100 kilometers of LFFK where a quick look in the hangars would show this to be the case at least in this part of France and I wouldn’t even have to include the 2 air parks.

France

My personal experience ties out with Gallois’. I effectively have two “bases”, Fairoaks EGTF and Cuers LFTF, so I can compare. I was based at Denham and White Waltham before, and only the latter has more private owners Cuers.

On top of a thriving aeroclub, Cuers has 3 rows of hangars and two rows of grass parking, all occupied by private owners. I’m ready to bet not even 5% of those owners have been to the UK, as tourists or for business, forget flying there themselves – nor do they have any interest in doing so; like Americans who live their entire lives without a passport, they have a huge convenient playground in Europe, so why would they bother with a complicated (customs, language, airspace, currency), expensive, and (to them) unwelcoming (weather, food clichés etc) country ?

The fact we don’t see them doesn’t mean they don’t exist

Last Edited by denopa at 29 Jun 19:09
EGTF, LFTF

Does Le Touquet have any commercial traffic at all? It is fully self funding; no subsidy. And it works hard to look after its customers.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

LFAT has very little commercial traffic, maybe a few charter flight per year plus bizav. It is self funded by the british pilot community :)
You are right that french owners are mostly unseen because they are invisible. Frankly you can fly in a club for years never knowing what is inside the next hangar.
Bosco, France is super centralized. Many companies need a link to Paris to do all sorts of things, and travel elsewhere. If you tell them to take the train (which isn’t getting better, despite billions), you just tell them to die quietly.
Macron said he would propose all the propositons to the MPs except lowering the speed limit (he doesn’t want a new bastille day), the dividend tax (je doesn’t want to put off his investors) and the « environment is above all freedoms » in the constitution (thank goodness).
I guess this avgas tax is likely to happen. Let’s fly as much as possible this year !
We may end up in an « italian » situation where most GA will switch to UL and rotax-world. What do you think ?

LFPT, LFEH

Domestic flights are often not for community between two places, but rather to make connections to your final destination or to a hub for an onward flight.

While it’s of course possible to do this on a trail, swapping between trains and planes is less convenient than a connecting flight.

EIWT Weston

Jujupilote said:

We may end up in an « italian » situation where most GA will switch to UL and rotax-world. What do you think ?

I think you’re right if only Avgas is taxed this will increase the difference to the other Fuel (unleaded and JetA1).
I think this is completely wrong because STC exists to feed Unleaded to lycoming and this won’t make them consume less or emit less CO2…
or even increase the use of Diesel engine which was so far the bad guy in public opinion. So this really proves that the experts didn’t knew what they were talking about or that they didn’t wanted to tell the whole story…

EDMG, Germany

dublinpilot wrote:

While it’s of course possible to do this on a trail, swapping between trains and planes is less convenient than a connecting flight.

Depends on how we build the infrastructure. In Frankfurt, e.g., it is not much less convenient to switch to train than to switch between T1 and T2. In Heathrow it is much easier to switch from T2 to train than to T5 (ok, you end up in the British rail system then ;-)).

Germany

Yes those german mogas STCs are going to be used in France now :)
If you surf on the convention website, there are documents they got from the major green lobbies and committees. Basically they copied that. But I can’t find where this avgas tax idea comes from. Any links ?

Sunday were the mayor’s elections in france, and the green party won a few big cities. All the media are saying « the french are turning green, they finally saw the light !». What nobody says is that the elderly were too scared of covid to go vote, and that changed the results quite a bit.
Also, the difference between major cities and the country is obvious. Youngs from major cities voted to ban thermal cars etc…because they can go by with bicycles and trains (and quite some air travel of course:). Here in the country, people can just pay for their next car maintenance, raise vegetables in their garden, exchange honey for salads etc… the green only got major cities, and have zero votes in the small towns. You have to drive anyway, whether you like it or not. And purchase power continues to drop. The Le Pen/Macron duel is just the french version of Trump/Clinton.

LFPT, LFEH

Depends on how we build the infrastructure. In Frankfurt, e.g., it is not much less convenient to switch to train than to switch between T1 and T2. In Heathrow it is much easier to switch from T2 to train than to T5 (ok, you end up in the British rail system then ;-)).

Ah but switching between trains and airplane is only part of it
Having been on German trains a few times, as a non-german speaker it’s quite frustrating. I get a schedule of connections (a journey of any length involves 2 or 3 train changes). Then the train is late by 2 minutes and I’ve missed the connection and I’ve got to figure out a different connection. It’s easier now of course with apps, but not near as pleasant as sitting on an aircraft and know that I’ll arrive at my destination. Any connections with aircraft have at least 90 minutes between them.

EIWT Weston

Peter wrote:

I am repeating what French pilots tell me, but they won’t post it themselves, so next time I hear this I will send them to you for the appropriate corrective process

I would rather believe what a French pilot writes here than what other French pilots for whatever reason don’t want to post themselves…

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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