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Euro and GA

RobertL18C wrote:

Isn’t the Cessna 185 in two-blade propeller configuration famous for going supersonic at the propeller tip on take -off. The old trick was to have a clothes peg on the propeller control to avoid going full fine.

Those and NA T-6s are the ones that make the most prop noise on takeoff. You can tell when either is operating locally from within my hangar, and distinguish between the two by listening for a radial engine rumble after the transonic prop noise passes.

My plane and MT CS prop will tach up to 2700 RPM redline right from zero airspeed (on takeoff) and stay there until I decrease RPM. The prop was certified in Europe with a limitation to 2500 RPM continuous but through correspondence with MT I determined this was some kind of certification driven noise issue, it isn’t a structural issue. Although I don’t run it generally over 2500 RPM for long periods, it’s good to know that this has no technical basis and that I’m not going to lose a blade if I use full power to continue max rate climb over mountains.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 21 Jul 15:09

Airborne_Again wrote:

Isn’t that a problem with very few aircraft types? At 2700 rpm and 200 KTAS you would need a propeller with more than 2 m diameter to reach M 0.9 at the propeller tips. Below that I wouldn’t expect locally supersonic flow.

I agree it is type specific but high mach numbers will be observed in typical GA touring aircraft even if you put them on electric engines, aircrafts with really small prop diameter tend to run on high rpm making more “(Rotax) high frequency annoyance” from engine/prop

The propeller noise problem can be solved by composite props, engine/prop reduction gear-box and variable pitch it just need lot of efforts…

Last Edited by Ibra at 21 Jul 21:39
Paris/Essex, United Kingdom

The best part about flying in Europe is having so many countries in easy range. I’d much prefer to be able to fly to France or Italy or Spain for real food than have a free buffet at an American airport ;)

Joking aside, I love flying in Europe and find it to be pretty straight forward. There are some good airports, and some bad one… You work in out pretty quickly. Last week I landed in Innsbruck and park there for 7 days, in total my bill was €170 which I think is very very good – much cheaper than the car park near my office in London.

There are many things we can improve and learn from America, though overall I’m also very positive about the future of GA in Europe. I’m 31 and have many friends who have recently got or are in the process of getting there PPL, the trouble for most of them is finding free instructors :)


A bit off topic but there are a handful of planes round here that fly at 2700 rpm and make MUCH more noise. The Cirrus, bless its little parachute, is one, though some Cirrus pilots seem to have found the control. There is also a Mooney that flies over my house from time to time at 2700. I’m tempted to get on the radio and tell them to pull the &#( prop back, though I never have.

KPAO, United States

I live on would could be described as a long long final to what was the 27 and this year has become the 26 into LFFK.(Several French airports have changed their coordinates this year due to the change in magnetic variation).
I can’t say that I have ever been disturbed by any light aircraft arriving or taking off.I may be biased but I get comfort from it.
It’s much better than the noise of lawnmowers in the suburbs on a Sunday morning or those damn unsilenced motorbikes and scooters and cars which have become more and more popular over the last 10 years or so.


gallois wrote:

I live on would could be described as a long long final to what was the 27 and this year has become the 26 into LFFK.(Several French airports have changed their coordinates this year due to the change in magnetic variation).

So you get more or less noise at your house now that their flight path rotated from 270M to 260M ?
(magnetic heading, the least useful thing in aviation these days and just costs load of money to everyone )

Paris/Essex, United Kingdom

The QFU change has made no difference to sound levels.But for my own take offs and landings I am finding it very strange after many years of calling 09 or 27 to now call 08 or 26, especially as although all the holding point panels have been updated to reflect the new numbers, they haven’t yet got round to repainting the runway numbers.


I was just joking that QFU change would make a difference to noise & flight paths (it is earth magnetic pole that is moving not residents houses or the physical runway, origin: when London Luton airport repainted their runway numbers some local residents complained that now heavy aircrafts are flying even closer over their heads and making too much noise while absolutely nothing has changed in terms of “True headings”, maybe it was a windy day just after they repainted the runway ? )

Last Edited by Ibra at 22 Jul 13:06
Paris/Essex, United Kingdom
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