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Brussels blocking UK from using EGNOS for LPV - and selection of alternates, and LPV versus +V

gallois wrote:

I think you need to check RAIM for any RNP approach except for the LPV approach. If the LPV approach is unavailable for some reason you need to revert to checking RAIM and using the LNAV minima. You do not have any certified vertical guidance . I think @NCYankee explained this in previous posts.

RAIM checking is unrelated to the type of approach. It depends on the (un)availability of SBAS. With SBAS available, you don’t need to check RAIM.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Where did you find RAIM check not necessary depending on avionics for non LPV approaches? Is that a UK thing?

France

I thought RAIM check was about availability of satellite service in a given area. It was certainly around before SBAS and LPV. Because of the SBAS or GBAS service and GPS checks, that negates the need for a RAIM check. If LPV and therefore SBAS or GBAS is notamed as unavailable then you return to pre LPV days and check RAIM before each flight or during flight for the 15minutes surrounding your ETA.

France

I thought RAIM check was about availability of satellite service in a given area.

The GPS set checks the calendar for the satellites visible at that location and time, not the availability of service. To check whether service is available you need to check Augur

http://augur.ecacnav.com/augur/app/help

The satellite service may be degraded (MIL) or a satellite may be under maintenance and RAIM can’t predict this interruption in service.

A WAAS set in Europe with EGNOS should not need a RAIM check as there will always be sufficient satellites visible in normal latitude ranges.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

gallois wrote:

Where did you find RAIM check not necessary depending on avionics for non LPV approaches? Is that a UK thing?

I didn’t say it depended on the avionics, but on the availability of SBAS. Of course that implies your avionics have to be SBAS capable.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

@Airborne_Again, actually my question was to PeteD’s post 210.
RobertL18C both Augur and checking RAIM in the air eg on the G1000, is about integrity monitoring but I short circuited the explanation simply writing service availability. Augur during planning or RAIM in the air will tell you the integrity of the information needed to be secure in the knowledge that the information you receive is of a good enough level for an RNP aka in the past as GNSS or RNAV approach to a particular airport is carried out successfully.
When your aircraft is suitably equipped with eg WAAS and the airport has an LPV approach there will be SBAS or GBAS satellites talking to the GPS satellite system and check on its integrity. If the integrity is there you can fly the LPV approach if available and checking RAIM in unnecessary because your onboard ASI will be flagged if there is a problem in the same way as an ILS will be flagged. Eg no glide path info and a large cross in its place.

France

I said it depended on the avionics as early nav systems were not sbas enabled, such as Garmin 430 and some G1000. Later 430W and gtn are.

Last Edited by PeteD at 27 Jun 12:32
EGNS, Other

gallois wrote:

When your aircraft is suitably equipped with eg WAAS and the airport has an LPV approach there will be SBAS or GBAS satellites talking to the GPS satellite system and check on its integrity. If the integrity is there you can fly the LPV approach if available and checking RAIM in unnecessary because your onboard ASI will be flagged if there is a problem in the same way as an ILS will be flagged. Eg no glide path info and a large cross in its place.

My point is that even for LNAV or LNAV/VNAV, RAIM checking is unnecessary if you have an SBAS box and the EGNOS satellites are available.

(PS. There are no GBAS satellites. GBAS augmentation is transmitted directly to the aircraft from ground stations.)

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

AIUI, all that this whole thing does is that Jepp will remove LPV procedures from their GPS databases, so once you update your database you will be left with just the non-LPV GPS procedures.

Some people will probably stop updating theirs. That’s fine, for this purpose. How long your old database will run for is GPS product dependent. Came up before further back I think.

Nothing else changes e.g. non-LPV GPS procedures, +V, “Garmin visual approaches”, all enroute GPS stuff, etc.

And nearly all of the airports have an ILS already anyway, which you can fly without an AFMS

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

There were only a few LVP’s anyway, due UK heel dragging, but technically your database still needs to be indate.
Turning up for IR Reval with out of date database prob not a good idea.

Last Edited by PeteD at 27 Jun 12:27
EGNS, Other
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