Removal of customs status -- now Germany

Switzerland just needs to find a way to get the benefit and not the cost or deficits

Presumably, not joining the Euro is a good start.

You guys are going to have a field day if the UK votes to come out

With Croatia, it's easy to understand why they joined: they are going to get €18BN to build more airports on the islands. They have about 3000 islands to do...

So why is the UK in the biggest recession and crisis of all "wealthy" European nations and can't find a way out for many years now?

Not sure I would agree. Things are improving here.

Why has the Euro been rock solid all the way through the crisis?

Presumably because nobody will ever entertain the possibility of German actually stopping supporting it.

That is how e.g. Greece managed to borrow enough money to scoop up every Porsche Caynenne ever made Nobody with a brain thought Greece was more creditworthy with the Euro than with the Drachma.

I don't think much of this stuff is rational.

On border controls, a few months ago we had a presentation by the border police at Shoreham. It started with them playing a video of Project Pegasus, which was utterly embarrassing. The idea is reasonable, and any owner ought to be conscious of security generally (vandalism, fuel theft, etc, and a few people had their planes completely stripped out) but it was such an obvious job creation scheme. They were completely unable to come up with any examples of "terrorist" use of GA.

Not sure I would agree. Things are improving here.

Are they? (I sincerely hope so, but have my doubts...) For me, an indicator how much business is going on in various countries is the number of bizjet flights they attract. This year, I have not had a single flight to the UK yet. Last year, three or four in total, in two cases (Southampton and Biggin Hill) we were the only business aircraft being handled there during our stay. We now fly far more often to countries like Spain (supposedly bankrupt since many years), Belgium, Slovakia, Poland, Czech Republic than in the previous years, therefore I have the impression that things are rather improving in those countries. BTW: Been flying commercially since 1992, but not a single flight to Greece yet. If this is representative in any way...

BTW: Been flying commercially since 1992, but not a single flight to Greece yet

I wonder if perhaps this is because "serious" economic activity in Greece is concentrated to the Athens area, and there they can hop onto a passenger flight.

There is a lot of industry around Greece, including the islands, but from what I have seen not much major stuff on the islands.

However there are always bizjets parked at Kerkira, so maybe the Greeks just own their own jets?

However there are always bizjets parked at Kerkira, so maybe the Greeks just own their own jets?

Maybe, or wealthy holidaymakers with their own jets. We constantly read in the press that there are quite a few very wealthy people in Greece who have found ways not to contribute to the consolidation of their national balance.

Care to elaborate? (Why Switzerland prefers to stay outside the EU for the time being)

Firstly, some of the Swiss core businesses really only work as long as they are outside the reach of European taxation and law enforcement, but this is being weakened a little more every day. Secondly it would put an immediate end to the Swiss hire-and-fire policy regarding foreign workers. If every European had the same right to live and work in Switzerland as every Swiss, the level of salaries and with it the economical power of the population would drop to EU levels overnight (*). And why should a Swiss engineering company pay 10.000 CHF a month for a Swiss engineer, if they can have a German or Spanish one for 5.000? And thirdly, as long as there is money in the country, Switzerland would become the number one milking cow of the EU. Even Germany would find a way to suck money from them... Having to fly throuh customs airfields therefore must be a very small price for a Swiss pilot to pay for avoiding all that ;-)

(*) Which is exactly what we have experienced in Germany over the last decades. We started as a high salary country and now have reached almost the lowest level EU-wide because everybody has the right to come here and offer his services or workforce a little cheaper. It has been an ongoing discussion in the Bizjets and GA forum of PPRuNe that pilot salaries in Germany are now the lowest in Europe, by as much as a factor of two compared to other EU countries. That hasn't always been so.

however there are always bizjets parked at Kerkira, so maybe the Greeks just own their own jets?

There are two bizjet companies doing some good business turnaround in Greece. http://www.k2smartjets.com http://www.interjet.gr plus another two or three single jet companies which are mainly private but operated under AOC for obvious reasons.

Also from what I know http://www.flylea.com/ is working on expanding towards a remote Athens base for operations due to demand.

The reason for traffic/demand is simple. Apart from the high end private transport for vacations there are lots of flights taking place from potential investors in evaluating projects etc. in Greece. For those who have the "cash" now is the time to set up good business for 10, 20 years down the line. These "passengers" usually come in via bizjet and immediately continue with helicopter to final destination.

In case you have not figured it out yet, there are lots of "FOR SALE" signs floating around in Greece and I don't mean the stickers/signs seen on the street. I refer to investments in the billions. These stakeholders don't fly on airlines ;-) e.g. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2308966/Skorpios-Daughter-Russian-billionaire-buys-idyllic-Greek-island-Aristotle-Onassis-married-Jackie-Kennedy.html

would drop to EU levels overnight

I don't think there's an uniform EU level. If you compare eg. Munich with say Kerkira, there's more difference than just the weather.

And why should a Swiss engineering company pay 10.000 CHF a month for a Swiss engineer, if they can have a German or Spanish one for 5.000

This is wrong on so many levels...

First, it already isn't difficult to hire a german or a spanish guy if you can get one. In Zürich 30% of the population is foreigners, of which about a third is germans. And some german municipalities complain about 10% foreigners. (It can be more difficult for some new EU countries like bulgaria and romania).

Second, good engineers tend to be an employee's market. So you hire what you can get.

Third, no good german engineer would work for 5000CHF in Zürich, given the cost of living.

Having to fly throuh customs airfields therefore must be a very small price for a Swiss pilot to pay for avoiding all that ;-)

I agree with this one 8-)

pilot salaries in Germany

I cannot believe that the pilot profession is in any way representative.

Our planes can travel much further than the local politicians think. Schengen is not really ALL of Europe, far from it, neither is the EU, even though there things are getting close.

But what about flying outside the EU or Schengen? Most of our travel planes can do this non stop but are now forced to land first on one of the few remaining customs airports in order to do exit customs and entry customs. That brings a lot of cost which is not needed.

From the UK, Paris can't be reached non stop anymore and it is not really a long way. Likewise the Channel Islands traffic can't fly into France without stopping someplace they did not really want to go to.

Closing down these services is mostly a question of petty cash money calculations in a time when governments are sufficiently cash strapped they will go to any lenghts to show the citizens they save.

I won't get into the "why is Switzerland still not in the EU" issue here to much but there are a lot more than just a few reasons why not. Most countries who have joined have had to pay a massive price. I sincerely hope that Switzerland won't fall into this trap, even if the economic war which is waged against us for a few years now increases. The people are clear on this, no way. They are as clear as the people in many current EU countries that they want out, our politicians are as clear as in most current and aspiring countries that they want in. The difference is, in Switzerland the people have the last say.

I don't think there's an uniform EU level. If you compare eg. Munich with say Kerkira, there's more difference than just the weather.

Of course not. But the highest EU level is lower than the lowest Swiss level. In everything, from salaries, price of land and houses to quality of products.

First, it already isn't difficult to hire a german or a spanish guy if you can get one.

But it's difficult for the German or Spanish guy because he will get a one year contract that can only be renewed if no Swiss guy turns up in the meantime who wants the job himself. I know quite a few guys (engineers and pilots, the only professions I am familiar with) who after some years did not get their contract renewed. The same applies to doctors I am told, but I don't know from first hand accounts. There's no way you can build yourself a decent life under these circumstances.

Third, no good german engineer would work for 5000CHF in Zürich, given the cost of living.

Not now, but wait until Switzerland has joined the EU and every engineer can apply. Why shouldn't employers pick the cheapest, just like everywhere else?