We have had numerous threads on syndicates – see “related” links below this thread for some – and I have written all this before 
but I think the only syndicates I have known who I would call “nicely working” were ones where each member could afford to own the plane alone and was in a syndicate to keep the plane flying more and to spread the fixed cost a bit.
Those syndicates are relaxed and, unless somebody’s financial or family situation takes some dramatic hit, they tend to run smoothly.
The above implies that syndicates of say 10+ members are very unlikely to be free of problems. Quite simply, the reason most people buy shares is because they cannot afford the whole, so they will be looking for value at that level of expense.
At the other end of the scale, say 20 members, the cost of flying is so low that nobody cares about some huge bill arriving. But those planes tend to be wrecks, so they get used for local burger runs.
Peter wrote:
I think the only syndicates I have known who I would call “nicely working” were ones where each member could afford to own the plane alone and was in a syndicate to keep the plane flying more and to spread the fixed cost a bit.
This would be exactly the profile I’d be looking for.
Yes, the ideal partners in such a syndicate are people who are in exactly the same economic situation like yourself (not much less as they tend to save on maintenance but also not much more as they might have upgrade ideas you can’r or do not want to finance).
In addition it would be perfect to have someone with a complementing flying profile (i.e. they want to fly during the week if you are limited to weekends and/or if you need it during school holidays they want to fly in between, etc) plus they should have very similar attitudes in general when it comes to record keeping, cleanliness, attention to detail, reliability, etc.
Extremely hard to find.
One additional consideration on number of members: If it is a true syndicate (and not you owning the plane and selling out block charter) as soon as it has more than 2 members you are “the minority” compared with the others. Therefore you no longer have control …
the ideal partners in such a syndicate are people who are in exactly the same economic situation like yourself
as they might have upgrade ideas you can’r or do not want to finance
they should have very similar attitudes in general when it comes to record keeping, cleanliness, attention to detail, reliability
Extremely hard to find.
Does this not remind you of, ahem, something else in life?
( icons from here )
Most people go into syndicates because they need the “fixed cost subsidy”. Hmmm, isn’t that similar to, ahem, something else, too?
Basically, what matters most with a syndicate is the people and their motives for being there. The plane can be “sorted”; it’s just a matter of money…
My data points are as a member of two syndicates.
The first is a 9-member TB10 group. I joined this almost ten years ago not so long after getting my PPL and have been a member ever since. This has always worked quite well with good aircraft availability and very reasonable costs, and there have never been any problems between the members. Some have come and gone during the time I have been a member – perhaps half the present members were here before me and half are newer than me. Over the years we have spent some money (engine, paint, interior, avionics) and it has always been quite easy to get agreement – no bill is that large when divided by 9! A few years ago we voted to increase the monthly cost by an above-inflation amount so now instead of cash calls we get a situation where the treasurer announces there is a surplus and we discuss how to spend it. That was a good move. Maintenance is with a CAMO and it costs what it costs.
The second is a 4-member PA17 group very close to where I live. I bought this share ~2 years ago mainly to have some low cost flying on my doorstep for summer evenings, etc. It was a 10-member group when I joined and after a year or so it became clear that 5-6 of them never flew the aircraft at all. Eventually most of them had their share up for sale and with a very flat market for shares during Covid they made a move to disband the group and sell the aircraft. The 4 of us who wished to continue bought them out with what was a very good deal for us – it valued the aircraft at very little and really they just took their share of the bank account and left. We now pay increased monthly costs of course, but it’s still very cheap in the grand scheme of things. We are considering expanding to 6 and have some interest, but 6 will be the limit. We did meet one guy recently who was interested in joining and he was the only person to set off my ‘I don’t want to co-own an aircraft with you’ alarm – thankfully he did not buy in. This aircraft is on an LAA permit and we do most of the maintenance ourselves.
This works well for me. I have access for two different aircraft for different missions, neither of them are ever really grounded, and availability is excellent.
Maoraigh wrote:
I joined the Cawdor Flying Group
Great literary connection to the Scottish play!
Graham wrote:
I have access for two different aircraft for different missions, neither of them are ever really grounded, and availability is excellent.
That sounds like a good deal !
Peter wrote:
Most people go into syndicates because they need the “fixed cost subsidy”. Hmmm, isn’t that similar to, ahem, something else, too?
As always, it’s depending on the individual mission profile if a subscription or a pay by use is a better fit ;-)
I am in a 10 member C172 group which runs pretty smoothly. One thing which works well for us is a detailed rule book for the routine stuff and a 7 vote minimum for major decisions, (expensive upgrades, mostly).
An advantage of a group of 5 or 6 is less personal conflict. One v one or, as I experienced two v two, is more likely than three v three.
People who rarely fly were no problem.
When one guy stopped paying his monthly we waited until his debt was greater than his share value.
Over the years I saved a lot by group ownership. Some guys would have been much cheaper renting.
Some people might want to be honestly able to mention they part-own an aircraft, after getting their PPL. The big group I was a founder member of, but left, had several members who didn’t fly all year.
