Dan wrote:
In my view an AP is good for:
It’s a thing of preference I guess. If i just do joyriding around the Alps or similar things, my AP stays off too.
However, if I go someplace, have possibly passengers who move around or have to deal with ATC e.t.c. then the AP is a very nice thing to have.
Call it playing Airliner if you wish and in my case you might even be right, but I feel that being able to use an AP is a good thing to have to decrease workload and improve capacity. Personally, I would not fly without one on a regular basis anymore.
the G5 / GI275 or a similar glass solution is much cheaper as any slaved mechanical slaved HSI.
One would not install a mechanical HSI nowadays – unless somebody has given you a KCS55 slaved compass system, you want to spend no money, and you like avionics wiring 
But in GA you need a fluxgate for a slaved compass system, and that will involve a similar installation action to any other fluxgate setup.
my longest leg yet 7:20h, and I didn’t miss an AP…
An AP totally transforms flying – both VFR and IFR. You are free to take photos, muck about, take a pee, eat, etc.
And if you want to hand fly, you disconnect it
He said later that if he new he would buy all those thing he would’ve gone for G500TXi + GFC500…
And end up totally dependent on his local Garmin dealer.
Unfortunately, the autopilot landscape is problematic nowadays → more money to Garmin.
Peter wrote:
An AP totally transforms flying – both VFR and IFR.
Thanks for the very good tips Peter 
In all honesty I think knowing one or two things about AP flying… or not
Dan wrote:
In all honesty I think knowing one or two things about AP flying… or not
It might be that someone who has done a lot of airline flying has different interests in GA than someone who has not – which can affect their (non)interest in having an AP.
Personally, I would not want to own an aircraft without an AP, and I would only make an IFR flight without one if that was the only option.
People have spent money on eye candy for decades.
I’ve lost count of the number of VFR only Garmin 430’s have been fitted in the past. And I doubht any of them have ever flown an RNP approach as until 2 years ago there wasn’t any within 100 miles.
They would of been better off learning how to fly using an NDB approach.
It might be that someone who has done a lot of airline flying has different interests in GA than someone who has not – which can affect their (non)interest in having an AP.
This is empirically very true; where I am based there are loads of current and ex airline pilots and every one of them wants to be as far away from IFR as possible. They fly RVs, and various “rag and tube” types. Just one of them retained his IR, had a twin com for a bit, sold long ago… This is not surprising; airline flying is dead boring, and you also get used to multiple redundant systems so will likely want to minimise SEP risks.
But if you start flying in GA and use it to go places (as well as local stuff, which I obviously don’t bother to write up, and neither do I write up repeated / non special longer trips) then the priorities are different. I have flown for many hours with a duff AP (Corfu – Santorini – back to UK) and it is no problem, especially with a passenger, but I would not depart on a long trip with an INOP AP. Just too many risk factors stacking up – not a good idea.
I am an “ok pilot”, with ~2.8k hrs, CPL/IR, but no superman, and I like to enjoy it. In the UK we have the additional and completely ridiculous and sadist zero-prisoners CAA policy which mandates pilot workload minimisation if you want your license to last. I do not hand fly UK routes, generally, except for practice in the local area.
learning how to fly using an NDB approach.
Using GPS, preferably. But you don’t need fancy avionics for that.
As I wrote before, I see loads of people blow 5 digits on kit, hardly use it, and then sell the plane, and get out of GA.
However I don’t regard spending money on an AP as frivolous, if there was none before, although a lot of people are pouring money into installations which replace a perfectly working older AP. Of course the installation business won’t discourage them
Probably a big factor in all this has been the demise of the MFD market. Avidyne was the last company to continue with this (EX5000 sort of stuff) and I think they have more or less packed up now. MFDs delivered good situational awareness when used with a non-useful-map GPS (like a KLN94, and even a GNS430 has a near-useless map) but with that market dead, an upgrade has driven people to “big glass”.
Airborne_Again wrote:
It might be that someone who has done a lot of airline flying has different interests in GA than someone who has not – which can affect their (non)interest in having an AP.
Yep, all good here. My remarks were tongue in cheek, as in
Being in a position of being able to modify my panel at will myself, the last 3 years have seen me go thru 3 major upgrades … going from strictly VFR instruments (speedo, alti, radio, old GPS nav, and a couple of steam gages for the engine) to 1 G5, then a 2nd G5 and a GNX375 transponder/navigator, and then a AV20 (with a different software to the Garmin stuff… hopefully) and some other stuff. For the next update I’d just need an AP control panel and 2 servos to be set… not ready for that yet
No questions asked, safe IFR in IMC requires an AP as an indispensable safety feature (no smiley here).
arj1 wrote:
As long as people are sensible with the upgrade path… I know one owner buying an electric AI for backup, then Aspen PFD, then new engine monitor, then autopilot (all for an Arrow). He said later that if he new he would buy all those thing he would’ve gone for G500TXi + GFC500…
Would have been cheaper, allegedly, and all info on the same display
I fully agree. If i can ever afford a personal plane the upgrade path will lead to G500txi + GTN or some Avidyne stuff. But in our club we have to keep the rental rates low. We bought a new P2008 last year, so the budget for upgrades is pretty low for a while.
Peter wrote:
One would not install a mechanical HSI nowadays – unless somebody has given you a KCS55 slaved compass system, you want to spend no money, and you like avionics wiringBut in GA you need a fluxgate for a slaved compass system, and that will involve a similar installation action to any other fluxgate setup.
That’s true for both systems (as you wrote), so it’s no factor for an upgrade. If there is an offer for a KCS55 or similar and my club will accept the upgrade it may be worth of consideration…..
An AP totally transforms flying – both VFR and IFR. You are free to take photos, muck about, take a pee, eat, etc.
And if you want to hand fly, you disconnect it
Several good reasons for an AP But due to my low flying times i have to keep my handflying skills on an acceptable level, so there is no need for an AP for now.
For longer trips it’s a good idea, preferably with HDG / NAV / ALT hold as a minimum.
