Hi johnh to give an example say Dinard LFRD to Fontenay le Comte LFFK. Once Dinard hands to Rennes (Dinard will probably give you the frequency but it will be on SDVFR). In English
after the introductory bonjour. The controller there is so used to UK pilots now he will probably say “pass your message” or “j’ecoute”
They used to use the English phrase “go ahead” but that is now banned or at least discouraged as it confuses.
“This is T20 N1234 from Dinard to Fontenay le Comte, 1 person on board, 3500ft QNH 1016 request transit.”
They will usually come back with " transit approved squawk 1259"
If you are about to fly over the city of Rennes they will call you and tell you that you must not do this below 5500ft what are your intentions. You then decide whether you are going to circle the city by the east or the west and inform them of your intentions. If you are above 5500ft you will probably not get this message. When you approach Nantes airspace, either approach or info they will say call Nantes (info/approach) on 123.455. You call them Nantes (info/app) “bonjour or good afternoon/morning this is N1234” . It is unlikely that you will have to repeat departure and arrival info etc. Usually they have your squawk as given by Rennes and they will not change that. They may ask you a question such as confirm altitude. They may say please pass east or west of rwy xx due to aircraft on approach/departure. This is more likely if you are above 5500ft. If below that they may well ask you to go to a VFR transit routing point ie take the VFR by pass.
As you approach La Roche Sur Yon LFRI you may well need to contact them frequency on the 1:500,000 chart if there is gliding or parachuting in progress. You will need to give some information on your current track and altitude and may be told that eg parachuting is in progress over the field what are your intentions? Again you will have to decide east or west of the runway. No approval is necessary as this is AFiS.
If you remain above 5500ft you are still in CAS so it is unlikely you will be asked to contact LFRI.
I mention La Roche sur for 2 reasons. Firstly you may want to start your descent somewhere before LFRI’s ATZ and you will exit CAS at 5500ft. On leaving CAS they will usually tell you and Nantes ATS will switch hats from control to info. South of LFRI there is a very high speed military jet corridor so you don’t want to be below the ceiling altitude/height shown on the charts or SDVFR or SD. But you only need to take notice of this if it is active. Nantes Info will inform you although you will will know this in the planning stage on the SIA website.
2 south of the Nantes CAS, LFFK sits under an RA starting at 3000ft. Nantes info will tell you whether it is active or not. From personal experience the times I have left my descent late and would have to orbit to get below 3000ft and told Nantes SIV that this is what I would need to do if it is active they have usually contacted Cognac (whose RA) this is and it has been approved for me to descend through the RA to LFFK. You could also call Cognac yourself if you wish.
LFFK is a Fr.only airfield so I would advise those who prefer to do radio in English and only perhaps have a French crib sheet, not to ask to leave the SIV frequency until you have airfield in sight. That way you can continue to receive information such as traffic info in English until the last minute. On leaving the frequency they will usually ask you to squawk 7000.
Now this all sounds very complicated until you do it and much of what I have written can be avoided if you can fly above FL55 as then you will talk to Dinard on take off Rennes for transit, Nantes to continue to transit and auto announce at LFFK. You may find yourself only talking to 3 ATSOs. But the key is planning in VFR as I don’t know of a route planner such as you might have for IFR.
NB frequencies etc have been made up to make a point.
I tend to draw a straight line and then look for difficulties. Generally, the difficulties come in the weather not allowing you to fly at the altitudes which make crossing CAS a breeze.
The lower you are the more likely you are to be in and out of CAS but the SIVs are very helpful there. But you may need to contact some of the smaller airfields below CAS.
Also useful to make a note of the RAs on the way and their frequencies in case they are active.
Of course they are not a problem if you stick to CAS including airways (yes even in VFR as they are Class E normally under FL115).
DAs you transit at your risk. Not illegal but worth knowing what’s going on.
Avoid P zones. It’s easier to think of it like that as they are usually not very large. But some are transitable under certain conditions. For those it is easier to look them up in the complimentaire VFR.
If you don’t want to talk to anyone you might need to do some detours or changes of altitude to remain outside RAs and CAS.
gallois wrote:
Idea of French ga pilot’s mindset when it comes to ATS
At the last aeroclub méchoui I attended, 2018 or 2019, we had a discussion about this. I described the UK system of specifically requesting entry into controlled airspace, and the possibility of a clearance being witheld: only about half the pilots actually believed me. In the collective memory, there was only one example of refused entry to controlled airspace many years before, where a student was very bad on the radio. The instructor took over communications, told the controller to stop being childish, and the problem was resolved.
I’ve had hundreds of airspace refusals in France. On every flight basically.
So I think someone is comparing apples and oranges. The Paris TMA is refused 99% of the time. Any piece of French military is refused similarly.
@gallois – thanks for all the helpful information. But I still have one question: who do you ask for the initial approval to enter CAS? Suppose I take off from Cannes, do I contact Nice Info (SIV) and ask them, or do I (somehow) figure out the frequency for Nice Approach and contact them directly? In some cases (e.g. Provence) it’s the same frequency, which makes it easy. But Nice has separate freqs.
The Paris TMA is refused 99% of the time. Any piece of French military is refused similarly.
Paris is a special case, since it’s Class A. Military airspace is very much a case of “it depends”. Le Luc, to the west of Nice, will always give you a transition, and usually exactly what you ask for. Canjuers, a few km to the north, will NEVER let you in. You just have to know – which is one of the frustrating aspects of low-altitude (say below 6000’) VFR flight in France.
Very similar to Gallois, I tend to plan rather direct with some waypoints for the AP and then look what could become difficult.
(Very little between Fri and Sun; and not much at other times).
Since Sept 2, I have tested this way: Beaune-Dinard, Dinard-Brest, Brest-Quiberon and Quiberon-D’Oleron.
No refusal, alt between 4000 and 8000ft.
All very friendly and helpful.
I did have to circumnavigate active military areas in the past – and have also been “training target” of some fighter jets blasting through clouds across my path (without warning by the controller of the area)
It depends which CAS you are wanting to transition and whether the CAS has an SIV attached..
I haven’t been to Cannes for a while so things might have changed. But if I remember correctly Cannes Twr will hand you over to Nice App on 120.655. You call them and do the usual type, reg, pob, VFR from to request enter your zone by climbing to xxxxft and transit…. you should then get a transponder code.
It might be that these days your contact with Cannes ground/twr “.N1234 TB20 2 POB au parking (parked) outside aeroclub with information bravo request taxi for a VFR flight to Avignon”
It is possible that Nice will.be expecting you and will give you txp code. They make ask your requested altitude and your initial heading before handing you to.the next ATC.
If you are staying below 2500? you remain OCAS and the SIV (flight information) will give you an information service and will usually tell you that you are about to enter CAS in time/distance what are your intentions. You can just ask for the frequency of the CAS and call them for.transit.
Depending.on SIV and ATC it might be the same person and will give you a txp code. If the SIV is the same.eg Nice Info and Nice approach they know what you are up to and.just give you the code. Remember they are there to help you, and to give you a service to help you on your way, not to police or block you.Or to try an catch you out so they can make money off you.
At Cannes you just get a clearance to a VFR departure point, e.g. WD (for flights headed West) at 2500 feet. Once you get close, they tell you to call Nice Info (120.85) – though of course that’s optional. IFR departure is a different matter, there they give you a departure route and hand you off to Nice Approach.
So I guess you would call Nice Info and request clearance at say FL080 to Avignon (or wherever, evidently)? And they would then hand you off to an “IFR” frequency?
To narrow it down, I was referring to provincial aeroclub flying: 100% VFR, away from Paris, in the 3000’-FL095 band.
I’ve just had a look through ENR5.1, and there are different levels of military airspace. A few examples at random from the Rs, in order of severity:
