But that just ensures that a pilot taxiing out just as ATC pack up (and it becomes FR-only) will be stranded there, and will be used to make some bizzare point that this is France…
OK; it’s his fault for not departing sooner, but we all know how this can happen… passenger delays, fuelling delays, Eurocontrol slots, etc.
In 2013 I landed at LFAT during what I much later discovered was FR-only time, but actually it was non-radio (tower) and you were supposed to make French calls. There was nobody around. The wx had been very difficult and it was a very difficult flight for me. Had the above situation taken place there, we would have been stuck there – and for no reason.
I think there are two things. One is language proficiency, which is an ICAO thing. And the other are radio privileges, which are a telecommunications regulator thing. As I understand it, you shouldn’t speak the language on the radio unless you have appropriate radio privileges for that language. Such requirement could then be buried in law regulating telecommunications. Exams for these privileges might be done by the telecommunications regulator. Unless they just hand out licences to operate radios. Proficiency could be potentially assessed by an examiner. I think passing exams in a given language is sometimes considered sufficient proof that you understand the language. Which doesn’t help if you already have a licence.
I personally find this quite unclear. But why have languages specified in radiotelephony privileges if you can speak in whatever language you wish?
Also, local authorities might not put any “level” on languages other than English. It might be you either have it (and then it’s probably for life) or you don’t. And your NAA might not normally put on their licences privileges from other countries (I guess they could flat out refuse to do so) – English being the only foreign language they “recognize”. And even with English you might run into trouble when the course and test was in a different country. There will, however, be some solution for English because the big boys need it as well.
It seems to me that the idea of international flying is IFR into an international airport. English works reasonably well for that. Russian solution to this problem is assigning you a Russian co-pilot.
Peter wrote:
But that just ensures that a pilot taxiing out just as ATC pack up
In my case they did not pack up. It was on one of the days on which LFPN was NOTAM ATS unavailable.
Peter wrote:
OK; it’s his fault for not departing sooner, but we all know how this can happen…
You could also be delayed beyond aerodrome opening hours in Germany and not be able to depart because of that. It is just a constraint you need to plan around. And in that case nobody would make an argument for departing regardless.
Has anyone written to the DGAC asking was the position is (with a reference)?
I’d do it, but my level of French would probably encourage them to give “the wrong answer”. But if someone who was fluent in French would write it, I’d be happy to the named sender (in case the person writing didn’t want to be associated in case of receiving the wrong answer). It would at least bring clarity to the situation once and for all.
Colm
PapaPapa wrote:
the english test from DGAC is crap, I’m planning not to go see them again ever…
O, you sourpuss! 
Sounds like someone did not get the score he ambitioned on his ELP, and will HAVE to go see them again in a couple of years unless he changes issuing authority (NAA).
@PapaPapa, don’t feel bad. I do not think that the DGAC test is crap, though. Actually I thought that the whole setup was very good, and the examiners cut you a lot of slack. What I do object to however, is that some of the recordings they make you listen to are of very poor quality, and some of the pilots speaking have very heavy accents. There were several recordings where I could not understand a word of what was being said. From that perspective I think the test is too hard, which is of course subjective… As usual the French set the bar too high, and I am not sure they gain anything from it.
Aviathor wrote:
some of the recordings they make you listen to are of very poor quality,
It was the same thing when I took the ELP test in Sweden. I believe it’s on purpose.
A lot of French ATIS is illegible – to me and any passengers. I recall La Rochelle, most recently.
I daresay many a French pilot will say the same about UK R/T
Bordeaux_Jim wrote:
I am running a French language course aimed at helping UK pilots feel more comfortable when flying to France.
What a brilliant idea. UK pilots who avoid FR only airfields or mountains are missing something special. I’m more or less bilingual, but it’s rare that I fly for more than a few hours in either language without a “say again”. If things get really difficult one can try “repetez doucement s’il vous plaît, il y a un rosbif à la radio”.
As for needing permission to speak in French in French airspace if I determine that is in the interests of safety or convenience, let’s not fall foul of Stockholm syndrome. It’s actually the other way around. It is the birthright of every Frenchman to speak in French, and no European authority has the “competence” to discriminate against other EU citizens for doing the same.
Peter
I read this in another thread and I am sorry to say that is plain stupid and breaks the whole concept of LPR
Stephan_Schwab wrote:
What I really would like to see is the receipt for a fine anyone has paid for doing R/T in French without French LP or only English LP in their license. Or a court order, or some other proof of police actions that resulted in fines or impounding the aircraft of whatever action. Please post a link to it, if it exists somewhere.
With that logic, why should I bother to sit an English LPR ?
I speak English thank you, I don’t feel anyone needs to check, so I’ll just fly around Europe not caring about LP ?
Ok for everyone ? so let’s just tell that to ICAO and get rid of those LPR…
@Mooney_Driver in the same post compared with Switzerland which enforced use of local language or English.
I’m sure that Switzerland being a country with 3 languages, the average English level is much better there than in France (for quite obvious reasons…). So I’m not sure it compares well.
Aviathor wrote:
Following numerous discussions on EuroGA on this subject, I believe the consensus is that no French LP is required.
I think it’s all good and well until there’s an accident. (I’m writing this at the same time an insurance company guy told me that not having an LPR is not a condition of exclusion of the contract).
So why bother with any LPR again ? (English or otherwise…)
Aviathor wrote:
O, you sourpuss!
Sounds like someone did not get the score he ambitioned on his ELP, and will HAVE to go see them again in a couple of years unless he changes issuing authority (NAA).
Aviathor wrote:
@PapaPapa, don’t feel bad. I do not think that the DGAC test is crap, though. Actually I thought that the whole setup was very good, and the examiners cut you a lot of slack. What I do object to however, is that some of the recordings they make you listen to are of very poor quality, and some of the pilots speaking have very heavy accents. There were several recordings where I could not understand a word of what was being said. From that perspective I think the test is too hard, which is of course subjective… As usual the French set the bar too high, and I am not sure they gain anything from it.
I don’t feel bad, I just took the p*ss big time.
But again their splitting VFR/ IFR is really BS… If they want to split PPL vs CPL/ATPL I don’t care (although their is no real provision for it anywhere and France has again wanted to do things differently than the others), but their recordings and exam for IFR are totally stupid and no they don’t cut too much slack…
I had level 4 because I had 13/20 on the recordings (of which I was very surprised as well).
The examiner told me “good level 5 but you had 13 at the recordings”, soooooo
Anyway, as long as I can sit my IR practical exam I don’t care for the rest. The renewal will be done some other way than DGAC…
There was a native English speaker who missed at least 2 messages on the recording so he will probably not get 6 either…
So really, what is level 6 for them ?
The stupidity of the test also lies in the fact that you have to translate some French !!
I hope the guy did not get my emergency sentence…. I could not find “curfew” on the spot (reported by examiner) but I bet he would not know the French “couvre-feu”. so he would have been unable to translate either.
‘nuf said. I won’t do another EN LP, after all the consensus is “no evil seen, no evil done” so why bother…
