Bordeaux_Jim wrote:
If you have a European passport you can work when and where you want throughout the EU without needing any form of visa or work permit.If you have a British passport, you need a visa for each individual country you want to work in.
That is the difference between having freedom of movement and not having it.
Not necessarily. Firstly, you are making the molehill significantly larger than it is. How many Britons actually used FoM to the maximum of its possibilities? Very few. In terms of numbers, yes, a couple of million Britons reside across Europe but mainly they are based in one country so don’t need FoM because they will likely have dual citizenship.
Since Brexit, I hear people bemoaning the loss of FoM but when I ask the question: When are you intending to move abroad, what are your concrete plans that have been thwarted by this move, there is typically little or no substance behind it, just a load of hot air about “having the opportunity to do it”. Reminds me of Monthy Python’s Life of Brian scene below
If you want to move abroad, you still can. Yes, it can be a bit of a faff but it’s not impossible.
However, back to real life: Let’s take EasyJet as an example. How often are people moved from (eg) an easyJet base across EU countries? Every week? Every month? If it’s to be on a quasi-permanent basis, yes, the employee has to be moved to the new country which, if there is a shortage of skilled employees in that particular field of expertise, is hardly an issue, the costs of which the employers would willingly accept.
If it’s just a temporary detachment from one EU country to another, the employee can work 90 days out of 180, all regulated by the ICT (Intra Company Transfer) card. So, as long as (eg) EasyJet has a legal entity in the country in which the employee works and receives an employment contract for said country, he can work one month out of Austria, one month out of Switzerland and then move on to UK without issues. As long as he doesn’t exceed the 90 days out of 180days rule, he’s ok.
Noting there is a lack of skilled workers across Europe, do you honestly think companies or governments won’t work to find rules to ensure those vacancies are filled? Take a lowly Lorry driver – as long as you’ve the requisite licence, you can work in Germany, no issues.
Since Brexit, I hear people bemoaning the loss of FoM but when I ask the question: When are you intending to move abroad, what are your concrete plans that have been thwarted by this move
But that is the entire point of my video and my post: pilots DO depend on FoM for their job opportunities, and I was specifically speaking about the effect on Pilots
A pilot without FoM is cut off from a vaste swathe of job opportunities to which they had access before Brexit. That is just a simple fact.
Yes it is a “faff”, and a faff which airlines simply do not need to bother with, because they have a steady flow of CVs from pilots who do have FoM!
Just casually looked through the recruitment pages of a couple of major EU airlines :
Airline 1
Valid EASA FCL CPL/Frozen ATPL
Valid Airbus A320 Type Rating
Valid unrestricted Class 1 medical
Preference will be given to applicants with +300 hours on the A320
English language fluency – minimum ICAO level 4
EU passport
No history of accident/incident
A high standard of teamwork, communication and interpersonal skills
Airline 2
- Must hold valid EU Passport / Citizenship.
- Must have legal right to live and work in Europe.
- Must hold EASA Pilot Licence and Medical.
Airline 3
Part-FCL (European) ATPL license (or CPL/IFR with frozen ATPL)
Completed MCC course
Advanced UPRT certificate (if not in possession of a type rating)
70 hours as Pilot in Command
Valid class 1 medical
High School Diploma or equivalent
Very good command of the English language
European Union (EU)/European Free Trade Association (EFTA) national
Height between 157 and 193 cm.
Now, if recruitment of non-EU nationals was as easy as you claim, why do each of these require an EU passport?
I don’t think pilots fall under skilled or shortage workers, plus there are plenty of candidates already…one can see why airlines want an easy route to hiring?
Ibra wrote:
I don’t think pilots fall under skilled or shortage workers, plus there are plenty of candidates already…one can see why airlines want an easy route to hiring?
Yes, that it just the simple truth.
Airlines could get visas and work-permits for UK passport holders, in the same way they could pay for pilots with FAA licences to convert them to EASA, but why would they bother?
This is just the reality of the European pilot job market.
But you don’t need to take my word for it, just ask any young British pilot trying to apply for jobs in Europe and being asked “Do you have an EU passport?”
Other than a critique of brexit – which, as far as the formal process goes, was done and finished 2 years ago – what can one learn from this or what can one do about it?
Bordeaux_Jim wrote:
But you don’t need to take my word for it, just ask any young British pilot trying to apply for jobs in Europe and being asked “Do you have an EU passport?”
Which begs the question.
Why does the world begin and end with the EU? You do realise there is a bigger world out there? And if someone is prepared to move abroad, chasing their dreams of being a pilot, why not further afield? USA. Asia.
This seems to be a recurrent theme I note out there, that people believe the world consists solely of the EU, beyond that there is nothing…… strange attitude, but there you go.
Steve6443 wrote:
Why does the world begin and end with the EU? You do realise there is a bigger world out there?
British pilots worked outside Europe before Brexit and continue to do so, but again, you are missing my point.
Before Brexit, they had access to a massive job market of 27 countries on their doorstep, to which they no longer have access (or have extremely restricted access).
That is a very real, extensive reduction in their career prospects, needlessly inflicted on them by their own government.
The UK professional pilot market doesn’t seem to have been affected by Brexit, and while we haven’t returned to a market where new white tail pilots on integrated courses were offered jobs before they even got their IRs, the airlines have been offering jobs to new candidates before they start their MCC/APS courses.
In due course we may reach a stage, like the USA, where sign on bonuses are offered.
Other than a critique of brexit – which, as far as the formal process goes, was done and finished 2 years ago – what can one learn from this or what can one do about it?
needlessly inflicted on them by their own government.
As you know, we don’t do “brexit” threads here (because they instantly go nasty) but it may be worth a reminder that brexit came about due to
I will now post the above under your FB post of the same video 
No more brexit moaning please, unless you have a solution to offer!
Bordeaux_Jim wrote:
British pilots worked outside Europe before Brexit and continue to do so, but again, you are missing my point.Before Brexit, they had access to a massive job market of 27 countries on their doorstep, to which they no longer have access (or have extremely restricted access).
That is a very real, extensive reduction in their career prospects, needlessly inflicted on them by their own government.
“A massive job market of 27 countries”.
Remind me again – how many countries exist outside of the EU? And you freely admit, British pilots worked outside of EU before Brexit and continue to do so. Yes, they have to jump through hoops if they wish to be employed in the EU but if that’s so difficult and opportunities are on offer elsewhere, which you confirm IS the case, why not just avoid the EU and work elsewhere?
At the end, this attitude could turn round and bite the EU in the ass – already we are seeing Spanish Tourism bosses demand EU drops the €7 charge on British tourists because they are reliant on Brits to spend money on holiday. 7€ per person might not be much for us here – a couple of minutes flying perhaps – but if Spanish Tourism bosses are concerned that it could divert tourists elsewhere, then they obviously have seen information detailing this effect.
Let’s now return the focus back to Airline pilots – at the moment, airline travel is still pre-covid levels. Not so in US, where pilots are in short supply and airlines are offering sign on bonuses. What do you believe will happen when flight movements start to grow back to pre-covid levels in the EU, do you think Lufthansa etc will sit back whilst UK pilots are hindered from working in the EU? No, there will likely be a move to change things, make it easier to employ 3rd nation pilots.
Either that or Saint Greta of Thunberg will get her desire, that all flying for us Plebs be banned, in which case the pilots will have to look beyond these 27 countries.
However it’s fascinating how some people truly believe that the world starts and ends with the EU…..
