Timothy wrote:
“I think I think, therefore I am, I think” ?
Ever seen “The Matrix”?
JasonC wrote:
It was a Cessna out of Meigs Field in SubLogic Flight Simulator on the Apple IIe for me.
Same for me, but on the Commodore 64…
MedEwok wrote:
if ending up unexpectedly rich, buy a PC-12 or Citation :D
LOL, well, yea. I can relate to that. My old pipe dream was and still somehow is an old Citation 501 SP…. even though now there are much more reasonable variants. TBM, Jetprop make much more sense for a single pilot, but I’d at least love to once fly one of them just for fun.
MedEwok wrote:
Buy a cheap old two seater (C152 or similar) to get more hours and experience
You might find that some cheap old 4 seaters may end up cheaper and more versatile. C150/2 are in QUITE high demand actually. In that situation, I’d go PA28 (140 or 180 depending) or maybe even a well equipped Morane (read all about them here) or a Grumman Traveller or Cheetah.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Just a few examples I have seen recently for VFR tourers:
http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=35753
Oh man, and the Johnson bar is so much fun! I love using it…
I personally found it to be a great trainer for gear, as I got in the habit of physically reaching forward and slapping the bar 3x to make sure the gear was down and fixed.
Flying aircraft with powered gear, I still find myself physically focusing on where the Johnson Bar ‘should be’ and then check the gear light to make sure the gear are down…
Just make sure you get a great instructor if you buy a Mooney. They’re slippery when coming down, and having good instruction will keep you from making mistakes like porpoising and prop-striking.
AF wrote:
I’ve considered trading the Mooney for a Bo, as the payload is ridiculously good.
One of my former students was talked into buying a Mooney shortly after getting his IR (not by me). After a short while he found out that a Bonanza would have been better for him, just like you. Only that he can’t find a buyer for his Mooney – and he has been trying to sell it for quite some time now.
Yes selling can be a problem. We’ve tried to sell the 252 on a few occasions. Even tried an auction. We wanted to upgrade to a newer Mooner, but we did not get any (serious) takers. We decided in the end to keep flying the 252.
Peter wrote:
Bonanza operating cost questions are here
Thanks for that Peter.
I’ve been lurking the beech forums and still don’t have the best idea of real-world numbers. From what I read, it looks like every plane is a bit different, and if you get a deal, you’re likely just getting the ‘installment’ plan, where you’ll end up paying for it over the next several years anyway…
Mooneys seem to be straightfoward wrt maintenance. Not many AD’s, inspections are a snap, and everything is pretty well-known, whereas Bo’s seem to be very particular, there are a million customizations which all have an effect on the cost of operation.
I’ll keep digging to find the gold side of things, the clear picture I’m currently missing.
Thanks for your repost in the other thread as well.
@Medewok – I’d highly recommend what was mentioned earlier about flying different aircraft in a club for a year first.
If you find that you aren’t too cramped while doing so, and enjoy the process, no need to buy your own airplane. It does not make fiscal sense…
But if (like a few of us) you go a little crazy when you can’t just go to the airport and fly somewhere, anywhere, any time you want, then you should obviously own your own set of wings, just to stay sane… ;)
Ownership has a lot of overhead to it that clubs don’t.
Just the buying process alone cost me about 8-10k.
- Inspection costs
- Travel to look at aircraft you ultimately don’t buy
- The first real service (there is always a whammy on the first go, as you’re new to the scene and the mechanics recommend everything should be replaced.. ;)
- Taxes, fees, registration, blah blah blah
I haven’t read this anywhere (it must be written somewhere) but from what I’ve experienced and seen others go through, you spend far more on your first annual/service than you do on all the subsequent ones…
Unless you’re getting a really well-maintained aircraft, there’s usually a hit on the first visit to the shop after you’ve bought the plane. Not that it is a piece of crap, just that there are so many things that can be replaced on a plane, and when you’re first getting into it, you’re simply not sure which ones you want and which ones you shouldn’t have, so a cautious person typically says ‘yes’ to almost everything… :)
For that reason, I’d put a 15k premium above the purchase price for your first airplane. If you buy one for 30k, within a year, you’ll probably have spent a total of 45k on it after inspections, travel, purchase, services, due diligence, legalities, etc. are tallied in.
what_next wrote:
he found out that a Bonanza would have been better for him, just like you.
I’m definitely happy with my Mooney. It has decent avionics, is in good condition, and the autopilot makes it feel like a completely different airplane while flying. I got a really good deal on it, so I’m really happy with my purchase (so far).
By the way, if anyone is flying legs over 1.5hrs regularly and doesn’t have an autopilot, you should try it once… woah. Like going from pilot to passenger with the flick of a switch. The workload is eliminated and you can just focus on the details for a second. When everything gets crazy – you know it does sometimes – the AP switch is like a timeout from the action. Worth every cent.
I’ll be moving to another continent in a few months and when I arrive at my destination, my primary use-case will be modified a bit…
The large cargo door on the Bo is a beautiful thing, and I can’t stop staring at pictures of it open like a barn or something…
Flying with equipment, that looks simply awesome.
Thus far, I only had commuting in mind, and the Mooney is great for that. Set the AP, relax… think about the business at hand… nice.
Loading up an AC w/ equipment is very different. Also, having the range improvement makes long-range international flights look brilliant.
I’ll admit, I secretly have a mad crush on the V-tail anyway. It’s about the only GA plane I have ever thought was really sexy. I don’t like saying things like ‘sexy’ about mechanical objects, but the V-tail is hot. If she were a girl, I’d give in and probably marry her…
Mooneys look fast or whatever, but man… the V-tail just looks gorgeous. That’s what all planes should look like.
I’ve wanted one since before I started flying, but the cost of operation has been the stumbling block for me.
I’m coming into a better financial position (hey, getting old does have it’s perks, doesn’t it?) so I can look at it more openly, but so far, I have absolutely no complaints about the Mooney. Definitely a great combination of simplicity, speed, and cost-effectiveness. Once the landings are mastered, it is a simple machine to own and operate.
Highly recommended for budget-conscious owners.
Most of the feedback I get from Bo owners is that they’re very well off, and can afford to drop $100k’s into their aircraft (and some do!). I’m not in that position, so it has made me question their sanity when they talk about maintenance. If someone is able to drop avionics worth 2x the airplane itself and custom interiors just because they like their plane, they’re obviously not limited by trivial numbers like maintenance…
I’m not quite financially advanced enough to have the luxury of falling in love with my plane that way… :)
So I’m trying to be really sure about making the step from Mooney to Bo.
I’m writing all of this in this thread, as the OP is probably going to go through the same dilemma soon enough!
With the exception of @Peter who does a great job of selling the TB20, from what I read, people tend to wind up going for either a Mooney or a Bo when buying a long-term owned aircraft that flies further than the next airfield on a salary that isn’t lottery-worthy. If I had to list aircraft by what I’ve read and heard it would go like this:
Income Level – Aircraft
Filthy Rich – Private Jet
Rich – Socata TBM / Pilatus
Wealthy – Cirrus
Higher Middle Class – Beechcraft
Upper Middle Class – Mooney
Middle Class – Cessna
Lower Class – Ultralights and stuff
Broke – Gyrocopters / Gliders
Don’t beat me for it!
As a very general comment, taking what I hear all day from other pilots privately, way too many people here in Europe tear their hair out managing their maintenance. There are too many companies which have a poor service / do poor work / all of the above. And a given aircraft owner can easily be in a scenario where there is nobody any good within a reasonable distance.
There are planes I would not buy no matter how much money I had – simply because I would not be able to manage the operations.
At the other end of the spectrum you have an owner with a private hangar and a nearby A&P/IA (an N-reg plane, obviously 
) and then the sun is shining and the birds are singing
From what I read, it looks like every plane is a bit different, and if you get a deal, you’re likely just getting the ‘installment’ plan, where you’ll end up paying for it over the next several years anyway…
That’s true for all planes I think, where you have the option of buying say
then I reckon if you bought all three at the same time and kept them for 10 years, PROB90 all three will have cost you the same
AF wrote:
Filthy Rich – Private Jet
Rich – Socata TBM / Pilatus
Wealthy – Cirrus
Higher Middle Class – Beechcraft
Upper Middle Class – Mooney
Middle Class – Cessna
Lower Class – Ultralights and stuff
Broke – Gyrocopters / Gliders
LOL, well, a bit simplified but yea. I’d be saying that Mooneys, you’d have to split them up between vintage and the more modern ones and in maintenance I’d place the vintage ones below the Cessnas, which bit quite a few people in Germany when they had to do the SID. Pipers (especcially the PA28) come to mind in the same class as well.
While we’re at it: would you take out a loan for buying an aircraft or rather be sure you have enough cash first? Financially I’m like many Germans highly risk averse in this regard. But buying with cash only does limit one’s options.
MedEwok wrote:
While we’re at it: would you take out a loan for buying an aircraft or rather be sure you have enough cash first?
Personally: no. (I co-owned two aircraft in the past and they were partially financed with loans, so I have my experiences…) As I see it, you will sooner or later be looking for a familiy home. Which, I guess, will not be possible without borrowing large sums of money (like as for 98% of our co-nationals). Every other loan you already have will reduce the amount the bank will be willing to borrow you for your house. And then you will have to explain why your children need to share a room only because their dad likes his expensive toys 
