Peter wrote:
I wasn’t suggesting it is practical
It worked for me 
I think 40 is the right age for a man to marry for the first time, but I was having too much fun to follow my own advice in that respect.
(However I haven’t so far given any of my houses to anyone and I married a woman who already has one of her own, fully paid for, and her ex didn’t buy it)
MedEwok wrote:
Minimum 4 seats. I certainly wouldn’t mind five or six either.
- My wife and I are both tall (1,77 m and 1,92 m respectively) so there should be ample leg- and headroom
- Weight should not be a large issue when planing trips, nor should space. A pram and at two large suitcases should fit in. At least 350-400 kg plus fuel should be possible.
- Range is of minor importance. I don’t think my family wants to fly legs longer than 2.5 hours, maybe 3.
- Some speed would be nice to get to places in those 2.5 hours though, although anything faster than 140-150kts is illusionary given the budget I guess.
- Flying will be VFR only for the next couple of years, around Germany and the neighbouring countries mainly. Wheter buying a VFR-only plane now or keeping IFR update capability in mind from the start is something I don’t know, your opinion please!
- Budget wise it is a question of buy a cheap old plane now (20 – 30k€) or wait for greater budgetary leeway in the future. As discussed in the elitism thread I am way too young to have earned enough for a “serious” newish IFR tourer just yet. In 10 years the budget might be something like 100k€, but should one rent until then?
- Realistically usage will be no more than 30 hours a year for the next couple of years, might get more after then. Does it make sense at all to buy for such a low-hours pilot?
- Since we’re talking about my first plane here, handling it shouldn’t be massively difficult. Although, the upside of being young and clever is that you learn fast. Anyways, don’t want it to be a doctor killer (note: my wife is a doctor too )
The only important points of this list are:
- 400kg payload plus fuel (so, rather, 550-600kg)
- up to 140kts IAS
- don’t mind six seats
- space for growing family (toddlers now, children later)
- VFR, maybe later IFR but don’t know
- maximum leg length 2-3 hrs.
This is similar to my problem a few years ago. Here are my key findings:
#1: don’t buy a slow plane. Archers are too slow. If you want to transport your family from A to B, you’ll need speed. Buying an Archer, so something similar, you’ll realize it isn’t fast enough after your 2nd trip. The important thing to ask is not: how long can my family sit tight in my plane, but: how far am I getting in that time.
#2: when buying a plane, think about the future mission profile, not the current one. Your children will grow (fact), so you might think ahead in terms of payload. I think you have considered that, but just in case.
#3: Don’t get fooled about how flexible VFR flying is over the year, especially for longer trips. It is not flexible at all. Your family likely won’t like turbulence or bad weather (throwing up is not fun), and you’ll find yourself more than once having planned a trip which you’ll have to abort because of the weather. It’ll be flyable, VMC, but still not something your family will enjoy.
#4: So, at some point you’ll think about IFR. Because it allows you to fly more often, i.e. get into the sun above the clouds. It does make you more flexible. It won’t allow for everything, but it gives you more flexibility. Which is what you’ll ask for with that kind of mission. As a medicine man (doctor), you have learned to learn, so theory won’t be an issue. This makes you a likely candidate for E-IR, or better CB-IR, or the new Basic IR currently in the pipe.
#5: SEPs fitting your mission likely will have 250-300 HP, retractable gear (for speed), ideally an autopilot, and more ideally, IFR equipment for later. Typical examples are the Piper Saratogas or Cherekees, Aztecs, Cessna 182s or 210s, 206s, or a Bonanza. Price tags for well maintained models are between 50k to 200k, and of course you can spend more.
#6: Don’t let anyone tell you that complex, powerful SEP’s are not for beginners, or hard to learn, or hard to fly, or any such crap. Because it is crap. The plane you’ll fly with your mission will have retractable gear (most likely), will have constant speed prop, will have autopilot. You can get used to that anytime, provided you have the right instructor.
#6: Shared ownership helps you save cost and still be flexible (provided your co-owners aren’t complete idiots). A maximum of, say, three people, two are better, but that cuts purchase price and yearly maintenance in half or thirds. Which can be huge factor.
That’s it, in a nutshell.
Unexpectedly, my wife bought me a kit plane which might be fit for the purpose. It is a 8-seater SET made primarily of a highly durable compound plastic by a company which has decades of experience in this field. They started using plastics long before anyone else in the industry. It is an unconventional design with a quadcycle gear undercarriage based on a railroad carriage by the same company. Due to this design it is a very safe plane. If it crashes the heavy duty train undercarriage will destroy the ground rather than the other way around. The heavy suspension will protect the crew and passengers from any harm.
The aircraft can take off from any runway, but grass runways may not survive this.
Due to the lightweight material and the powerful 1000 kW engine, the aircraft can carry 1500 kg while still remaining below 2000 kg MTOW. The unmodified plane has no moving parts whatsoever except for the propellor, including no control surfaces. This makes maintenance easy. The plane will ignore physics and aerodynamics at will, making it highly maneuverable even without control surfaces. Stall speed can be as low as 0 kt as the craft can be suspended in mid air for extended periods of time if desired. It also consumes no fuel of any sort, still reaching a top speed of 500kt.
Repairs and modifications are easily done and spare parts are widely available from the same company. It took me only 2 minutes to complete the kit, although I modified it three times already.
My one and a half year old son destroyed the plane two times already. While otherwise nearly impervious to damage, it seems highly susceptible to children. Here is a picture of its current state:
Lego is brilliant It was by far the longest-running (in terms of years of enjoyment) toy for my two kids, and I have kept it all for theirs, one day…
Why don’t you look at leasing an aircraft for Private Pleasure and Business uses, leasing an aircraft short term would be a better option IMO than purchasing a dated aircraft, finding an airport to store said aircraft, maintaining the aircraft etc.
@MedEwok
Why not buy a plane for a 3-5 year time frame? I think Archer class (any 180 HP in good condition) makes sense for your mission. I think you’re over estimating your weight needs. You’ll learn what it means to own, can sell it and move on.
But if you plan for 30 hours/year (BTW not enough to stay truly current in a HP retractable without prior experience), I agree with other posters who have said syndicates or rentals are a better idea.
Also, speed is over-rated. You can make fun stops on the way to the Greek islands.
Finally, I think it unlikely you’ll take your young children for more than 1-2 long trips. Most likely, it will be you alone or with your wife,
1-2 hours is about right. How long you can go during this time can be pretty important.
Speaking of LEGO and family trips I can recommend EKBI as a great family destination. 5 minutes walk from the GA terminal of Billund airport is legoland (its at the other end of the parking lot)…
I imagine you found some creative way to pitch the aircraft, I see no elevators at the rear.
lmsl1967 wrote:
I imagine you found some creative way to pitch the aircraft, I see no elevators at the rear.
weight shift…. cat goes to back, nose goes up…. cat goes to front, nose goes down…. cat goes out onto left wing, plane banks left….. then cat falls off….. ;-)
