Interesting range of responses!
I have not flown to UK myself (although planned it several times and one time joined up as a passenger on a GA flight to Manston, RIP) but none of the reasons brought forward above would keep me from flying there in principle.
I think Pytlak’s statistical comment pretty much sums it up. I find the UK and Ireland just as interesting as any other European country within reach – some of which I have visited, some of which not (yet).
If I was considering a trip to the UK, neither the Basic Service nor the airspace structure, nor the accent, nor the immigration procedure would keep me from going. Much like the French airspace structure doesn’t keep me from going or the Italian accent doesn’t keep me from going or the immigration procedure to Belarus doesn’t keep me from going. These are things do be dealt with on the flight and they are part of the fun. I’m actually very surprised these are things that keep pilots actually from going there!
The weather-related rate of cancellation of UK-bound trips is higher though than trips planned to the south of Europe..
Pytlak wrote:
LANGUAGE barrier – it seems to me that British controllers compete with American ones trying to be as much unintelligible as possible. The difference between US and UK controllers is that in case of US controllers they at least try to give you information that is practical and pertinent to your flight… (I mean they are helpful :-))
There’s something to it. I used to fly jumpseat into JFK a lot of times and had the chance to visit their tower pre-2001. Cool folks, sometimes I wish all European ATCO’s (well, and some from other places) would have to do an exchange year there before working here, but then again, most European controllers are severely restricted by their CYA CAA’s and actually castrated in what they can do as opposed to what they are capable of. NY ATC was always fun to listen to particularly as they still had the time for a good laugh. Even Kennedy Ground was fun to listen to (and those who missed it, look for Kennedy Steve
)
Fun memory of a British controller years’n years ago, flying in on a Caravelle with two Swiss-French pilots. A clearly unnerved gent on the other side with not quite the Oxford English (more like a Yorkshire Man if I got the dialect right) shouting at us “You are supposed to use the Queen’s English here!” after he had to repeat an instruction we missed… Out of the blue yonder comes a voice “So are you mate!” Needless to say inquiries along the lines of “who said that” went unanswered.
But then again, David Gunson has managed to make me an all time fan of British ATCO’s. Unforgettable and one of a kind. “I apologize, sir, but the wind is blowing from your end!” “If you can see daylight, you should tell somebody”.
Most pilots dream of flying to foreign lands, but the dreaming and the reality clash and reality wins.
Reality 1: Money and the willingness to spend it. I plan a flight from A to B, but then realise I can get there for less money by airline. Ok you can’t beat flying there yourself but money is the limiting factor.
Reality 2: Dreading the bureaucracy. If you have ever read of GA pilots who have flown around the world, the one thing that stands out in all their accounts is bureaucracy. Even with SERA there is still a level of bureaucracy to deal with. Most pilots (most humans) want an easy life and regard dealing with rules and regulations as a problem to be avoided.
Reality 3: Worries about ditching: Not to treated lightly but if you look at the statistics, the number of engine failures per 100,000 miles flown is very small. I always wear a life jacket if I am going to cross any stretch of water. I also have a life raft rented on an annual basis, so I always have a “fresh” one. If you look on You Tube, you will see any amount of pilots crossing long distances over water, wearing no safety gear. They probable think that if they ditch they will not survive, so they don’t bother. That’s blasé.
Reality 4: Language. I have noticed the lack of French pilots visiting the UK and my conclusion is, they worry about language. If you have an EASA licence you have to have an endorsement as to the level of English you can speak. It must be a low level because so many French airfields still allow French only, usually when there is no controller on duty. If I was French with a low level of English, I would stay in France. Likewise, if French was the international language of ATC, I would stay in the UK.
Reality 5: Commitment. To do any serious touring requires commitment; to spend the money, to fly a capable aircraft, to be prepared to cope with bureaucracy etc
Example; when I did my first long distance flight (UK to Portugal) in the days before the Euro, before mobile phones, before GPS, before internet weather services, I couldn’t contemplate doing it VFR because I worried excessively about avoiding control zones en-route, navigation etc. All I had done up to that point was cross channel to L2K and Calais. So that was what prompted me to get an Instrument rating. (commitment).
Peter_Mundy wrote:
Food, non-Schengen, overhead join, weather, petty rules, generally poor hotels……
Food at airfields…I agree. Non-Schengen and petty rules….covered by my observations on bureaucracy. Overhead join..I agree, it is crap. I would prefer the American system of joining on the 45. Weather…well it’s the weather?….Poor hotels…depends how fussy you are.
We have some great fly-ins and I encourage continental pilots to attend.
There is no airfield with custom close to Paris (Issy and Le Bourget are not for GA aeroplane pilots). That’s my main reason for not visiting the UK very often.
For French people: most of us don’t speak a good enough English. Although I trained for my CPL, CRI and FI in the UK, I still fail from time to time to understand what is said to me on the radio, and of course what other pilots say.
My fellow French pilots are usually not afraid by the UK rules (which are significantly different) because as a rule, they don’t care about rules.
Piotr_Szut wrote:
There is no airfield with custom close to Paris (Issy and Le Bourget are not for GA aeroplane pilots). That’s my main reason for not visiting the UK very often.But you don’t need to clear customs to visit the UK. At least not for another year.
But you don’t need to clear customs to visit the UK. At least not for another year.
Some airfields around Paris do have customs (PPR) but not immigration which is what you need to fly to the UK. From Pontoise or Toussus I can fly direct to Switzerland or Norway, but not to the UK.
For someone UK based, this is an interesting thread to read. I think a lot of people are missing out! Let me pick up a few points, starting with those which are probably the most valid:
Some other points which may be the result of misconceptions and forum posts by pilots who have never visited the UK:
We hope to see some of you at Cambridge
Aviathor wrote:
do have customs (PPR) but not immigration
I’m sure this will be obvious when it’s explained, but what is the point of this? You can fly to the airport with imported booze, but not imported people? Or is it that somebody who is already at the airport for another reason can accept customs declarations, but not stamp passports?
A nice summary Peter. A worthy effort to get more people to visit the UK by GA.
Having enjoyed my last trip to the UK (by car/ferry ) I am certainly inclined to come back someday. No chance of making it to the Cambridge fly-in though :(
redRover wrote:
I’m sure this will be obvious when it’s explained, but what is the point of this?
To allow flights to/from Switzerland (and Iceland and Norway, I but don’t think that is the motivation in France).