I had a UK VAT registered company which had been dissolved 15 years ago. I still use that VAT number in Spain.
There is a pan-EU VAT number checking website which was 100% used pre-brexit (because some mainland-Europe customers presented fake VAT numbers to get VAT-free goods) but I don’t think anybody on the mainland can use it now to check UK VAT numbers because a) the two VAT systems are now separate and b) quite possibly it will no longer validate GB… numbers (in which case UK HMRC will have to set up their own validation website; no idea if they have).
Peter wrote:
UK HMRC will have to set up their own validation website
Ta da: https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/check-vat-number/enter-vat-details
Edit: EU is https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/#/vat-validation
AIUI UK visitors can now reclaim the VAT they have paid in any EU country on any item.
Spain always asked for a VAT number for GA fuel even before the UK left the EU VAT system.
I can only assume they have just kept that going but what on earth you do if you don’t have a VAT number I don’t know.
I assume that you pay the fuel +VAT and if you are from the UK you claim it back and if you give a VAT number they don’t charge it in the first place.
Exactly how you reclaim and who from I don’t know I just remember a news article about how many Brits don’t know about this and how much is never reclaimed.
Edit: EU is https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/#/vat-validation
Presumably that one is of no use to UK businesses anymore.
And the UK one likewise
Ta da: https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/check-vat-number/enter-vat-details
unless you want to check a company “exists” – a fairly standard procedure among big firms to help control inside job fraud.
AIUI UK visitors can now reclaim the VAT they have paid in any EU country on any item.
That would be amazing.
Peter wrote:
I gave them my full company name address and VAT number. Then they didn’t charge the Spanish VAT. That saved ~20%. Obviously I paid for it with my own money; it wasn’t a business related flight.The funny thing is that this is the correct procedure for non EU export anyway regardless of whether the customer gives you a VAT number or not. Post-brexit, a UK VAT number is meaningless to a Spanish supplier because the EU VAT system is now decoupled from the UK VAT system, in the same way it is obviously decoupled from a VAT system in say Botswana.
No. The deemed place of supply of services for the application of VAT rules is (with some exceptions) the same for EU customer or non-EU customer. The general rule is:
So for a Spanish provider (VAT-taxable person/trader) whether your customer is UK or NL or BW (Botswana) doesn’t make a difference in theory:
There are a few subtleties in the words above that people not used to the system will not necessarily understand from the words above, e.g. an individual that has a “VAT kind” economic activity as an individual is considered as VAT-taxable person for their business activity, but not for their personal life. That is the “when acting as such” part.
Now, enter the exceptions to this general rule, here are a few examples:
Peter wrote:
Edit: EU is https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/#/vat-validationPresumably that one is of no use to UK businesses anymore.
I’m not aware that UK VAT law has substantially changed since before Brexit, just “EU + assorted territories including Isle of Man & Gibraltar” is replaced by “UK + Isle of Man + Gibraltar”. So I’d say that presumably that website is useful for UK businesses, it shows that they have done their research in verifying that their customer is a VAT-taxable person/trader. But they don’t anymore have the obligation to rat them out to their respective VAT tax offices.
gallois wrote:
I assume that you pay the fuel +VAT and if you are from the UK you claim it back and if you give a VAT number they don’t charge it in the first place.
No. Just like if you buy fuel in Spain when being in a car in Spain, you can’t reclaim the VAT on it just because you are a UK, or BW, or US, or CA, or TH (Thailand) tourist. Same, even if you have a VAT number, you cannot get the fuel station not to charge you Spanish VAT.
That is because essentially fuel supply is not supply of a service, it is supply of goods. So the rules I gave above (which are over-simplified as “no VAT if you give a foreign VAT number”) DO NOT APPLY AT ALL. The VAT of the place of supply apples, punto basta.
Now, you tell me, British Airways or United Airlines (US airline) do not pay VAT on their fuel. That comes from a completely different reason, not the general rules of VAT. That is because fuel supply to an airline that make essentially (only) international transport for reward by air is exempt for VAT by a special exemption just for commercial air transport. E.g. if Paul Allen or Donal Trump fly their private jet into the EU for personal reasons, they will pay VAT on the fuel they buy in the EU. If Microsoft or the Trump Organisation fly their corporate jet into the EU for business reason (other than transport of passenger or cargo for reward, e.g. for a business meeting of Satya Nadella or Eric Trump in the EU) they will pay VAT on the fuel they buy in the EU. Reclaim of that VAT is possible or not according to the same rules as any other purchase.
But, if Microsoft has a subsidiary that operates their “corporate jet” under an AOC and that bills Microsoft Inc for the passenger transport of Satya Nadella, and the activity of that subsidiary is chiefly on interational routes (not intra-US transport…), then yes, that subsidiary will not pay VAT on the fuel it buys in the EU, and yes, the cost of that fuel is included in the Satya Nadella transport ticket that is billed to Microsoft Inc
I struggle to get my head around this.
Pre-brexit, if e.g. a German customer supplied a valid EU VAT number, we would invoice him with zero VAT. Otherwise we invoice him with UK VAT. This has not changed in that we invoice him with zero VAT in all cases (talking B2B here, not retail).
And what a Spanish business is doing asking for a UK VAT #, I don’t understand at all
Peter wrote:
talking B2B here, not retail
Well, “B2B” is a more colloquial and less-well defined term that is mostly equivalent to “customer is VAT-taxable trader”.
Peter wrote:
This has not changed in that we invoice him with zero VAT in all cases
That is because you don’t provide services that fall under one of the exceptions. If you were e.g. to serve sell him a meal while physically in the UK (restaurant business) or charge for accommodation (hotel business) you would charge the British VAT even in a B2B case.
And pre-Brexit or post-Brexit, if you sell to a German company goods that stay in the UK (not transported out of the UK, neither by you nor by customer nor on your behalf nor on behalf of customer), you would charge them UK VAT, right? (If you don’t, I firmly recommend that you change this policy.)
Peter wrote:
what a Spanish business is doing asking for a UK VAT #, I don’t understand at all
It may just be inertia not having adapted to Brexit. However, again, the fact that you have a UK VAT number can very well be considered as prima facie evidence that this is, in your words, a B2B transaction (in the words of the VAT law: supply of services to a VAT trader acting as such). And your incapacity to provide a UK VAT number as a strong suspicion that this is (in VAT terms) B2C transaction, notwithstanding the fact that the customer is a company, where “B2C” in VAT terms is a more colloquial and less-well defined version of “customer is not a VAT-taxable trader acting as such”.