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8k fine for landing without a clearance

https://www.caa.co.uk/News/Private-pilot-fined-after-landing-without-permission/

The reality in GA is that most pilots don’t get notams… they were never taught in my PPL, 18 years ago.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

The reality in GA is that most pilots don’t get notams… they were never taught in my PPL, 18 years ago.

I am sure you meant “The reality in UK GA is that most pilots don’t get notams…”

Don’t generalise. I do not think that PPLs on the continent are that clueless.

LFPT, LFPN

Are we missing part of the story? This seems a big deal about not much; what do you expect when you change the Tower frequency?

Certainly worth a stern talking too and maybe a small fine (yes he should have checked the Notams), but license suspension and a big fine?

A landing aircraft usually has a very good view of the field; consequently I would think that there was very little risk of hitting an aircraft lining up for departure. I have had people line up on the runway whilst I was on short final – I was irritated and went around, but it wasn’t unsafe per se. Did the tower give him light signals? Did the pilot ‘almost’ crash into the other aircraft? Was this more serious than it sounds?

I learned to fly in a busy controlled environment; the expectation was that if we were unable to raise the ATC outside the control zone (i.e. the radio failed, or we tuned it incorrectly :-)) we should apply NORDO procedures and land at an uncontrolled field (or call ATC on your mobile).

However, if you were already inside the control zone (e.g. was this guy handed off from Birmingham?) there was a bit of judgement to apply. For example if you were at the edge of the zone when you were unable to raise ATC on the radio, you might just turn and leave controlled airspace. If you were already on downwind in a circuit, then the most obvious thing to do is proceed on course and watch for the light gun.

I always wonder about these publicised fines. They seem a bit random. No one I know personally has had an aviation related fine, but we have all made small mistakes which have been resolved with a couple of words. Do they save the fines for repeat offenders? Or are you just unlucky to find someone grumpy on a given day?

In looking this up, I just realised another difference between North America and the UK. Coventry airfield is in Class G. In North America, this would be a non issue because you can do what you please. Because I am conscientious, I have probably always done the right thing, but I have just discovered that ATZs in the UK are controlled too, regardless of the airspace class. You are required to make contact with the A/G operator. WTF? Why don’t they just make it C,D,E as appropriate (see an example below)? Again, it doesn’t excuse this guy, but as a foreigner, I might have landed too! Thankfully, I have always contacted the A/G operator… out of courtesy rather than perceived legality. Oops.

I guess you learn something new everyday.

Last Edited by Canuck at 10 Jun 10:54
Sans aircraft at the moment :-(, United Kingdom

Aviathor… everyone here took note (yesterday’s post) that the UK is off your destination list (along with Italy and Greece) but there is no additional requirement for you to re-state this preference in every 2nd or 3rd post of yours

Canuck… I am sure there is indeed more to the story, but it may not be quite what one thinks. It could be anything, but it could be just that somebody big got pi$$ed off. Stuff can land on different desks and if it lands on the wrong one…?

One can spend time reading through UK CAA procecutions here (it lists almost wholly only those which the CAA won) and the general drift there is that those who get done big-time are

  • AOC busting (always a favourite, worldwide)
  • high profile / arrogant stunts (likewise)
  • highly visible busts (a big airshow, where a display of national air force jets has to be shelved)

What is not visible is the pilot’s attitude at the subsequent interview and I am sure a fair number of the prosecutions are also due to that. I know absolutely nothing about this case but amazingly there really are people who, at the interview, tell the CAA to stick it where it is warm and dark, and obviously the CAA will hit those hard.

What is also not visible is the pilot’s previous history.

Another thing is that the CAA tells you, before the court, that if you plead G they will apply for costs of £X but if you plead NG they will apply for costs of say £5X. The extra few k is going to seriously concentrate the mind of the average PPL, regardless of whether he reckons he did anything wrong or not. Most people will plead G to assassinating this guy if the alternative is £5k more and unless you spend another 5-10k on a top lawyer you will be found guilty anyway

This is a really big fine. It is almost 2x of the one for busting the Eastbourne air show with the Red Arrows, a few years ago, by a pilot from Belgium.

It worries me in particular because the matrix of Shoreham being open or closed varies daily. I have an indemnity but the CAA banned ops during ATC breaks; the indemnity is usable only if the airport is closed all day. But the indemnity option can be withdrawn at any time…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Aviathor… everyone here took note (yesterday’s post) that the UK is off your destination list (along with Italy and Greece) but there is no additional requirement for you to re-state this preference in every 2nd or 3rd post of yours

Completely different subject. You are the one ranting about how poor PPL training is in the UK. It would seem you are right about that, but don’t generalise that to all of Europe.

LFPT, LFPN

Are we missing part of the story? This seems a big deal about not much; what do you expect when you change the Tower frequency?

For sure, we are missing whatever the CAA doesn’t want us to know – and Canuck, you’ve taken the words out of my iPad.

Coventry has a 6,500 ft runway, 150 feet wide, big enough for several small aeroplanes to use simultaneously, as happens at proper airports at the discretion of ATC.

That said, the lesson from the CAA’s press release it that Mr Harbottle was as woefully lacking in legal advice and representation vis-a-vis the CAA flatfoots as he appears to have been in preparation for flight.

Close examination of CAA IET reveals that it is staffed by ex-detectives whose police careers have, for one reason or another, come to an end. These are fallen fruit from the same tree as the serving officers I come across as an expert witness who believe that it is right to withhold exculpatory evidence and to recycle each other’s witness statements, changing just a word here and there.

If you ever have the misfortune to be invited to communicate with these people… DON’T! They are a race apart, an amoral sub-species with which the ordinary GA pilot has as much in common as with ISIL or the National Front, so you need expert help. It costs only couple of AMU to engage a barrister on direct access, and the right advocate is worth every penny.

Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom

Yes, I hear there was a lot more context to this case than may appear from the headline.

Incidentally ‘most pilots don’t get NOTAMs’ couldn’t more be more untrue these days – with sky demon and the free light version being almost universal, I think the NOTAM penetration is higher than ever before amongst GA.

Now retired from forums best wishes

Canuck wrote:

In looking this up, I just realised another difference between North America and the UK. Coventry airfield is in Class G. In North America, this would be a non issue because you can do what you please.

In the US, towers can exist at airports in class G. They are usually temporary towers established for events and involve a NOTAM. But 91.126 requires that pilots establish communications at such towers in class G airspace when within 4 NM and 2500 AGL.

KUZA, United States

NCYankee. Good to know, thanks. I learned at least two things today :-). Thankfully, I check the Notams, so it seems I haven’t screwed up royally yet!

Sans aircraft at the moment :-(, United Kingdom

Canuck wrote:

Coventry airfield is in Class G. In North America, this would be a non issue because you can do what you please. Because I am conscientious, I have probably always done the right thing, but I have just discovered that ATZs in the UK are controlled too, regardless of the airspace class. You are required to make contact with the A/G operator. WTF?

Well… Yes and no. “Aerodrome traffic” of controlled airports is controlled even if the airport is located in airspace class is G (SERA.5005(h)(2) and SERA.8001(d)). The definition of “aerodrome traffic” is not very precise, to say the least, so in the UK this is made precise using the ATZs.

But this only applies to controlled airports with a ATC tower. An A/G operator can’t control traffic.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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