Over the years I have seen many videos which show ATC that is practically illegible to anybody new to the game. This is one of many
Do pilots operating there just learn this “new language”?
Many years ago I have driven extensively around the US and have never heard such incomprehensible language. Lots of accents, sure, but I understood them all just fine.
Never had a problem and find it the most efficient and easiest ATC system to navigate.
Last time I was in the US I couldn’t believe how incredibly easy it was to understand ATC! It was such a pleasure compared to screwing my ears up to decipher ATC here in France (whether in English or in French).
Well the airline’s crew’s English really wasn’t up to the required standard. But ATC certainly wasn’t helping.
When the crew clearly couldn’t understand what ATC was saying, they should have reverted to very basic, word by word instructions.
Stuff like “No that’s not what I said” should be replaced simply by “Negative”. Much easier to understand for a non-native speaker and standard phraseology.
Stuff like “<mumble which I think is ‘where are you heading’>…You’re not even listening sir. You’re talking while I’m still talking” followed immediately by rapid fire taxi instructions really isn’t helpful. I’m sure the pilots are still trying to understand the first part of what he’s saying (which is completely irrelevant but they haven’t processed it yet) while he’s giving the rapid fire taxi instructions.
(Note that whoever did the transcript at 7:36 didn’t even try to decipher the mumble at the start, or perhaps couldn’t.)
Far better would have been “Negative. Taxi Golf runway four lima hold short foxtrot”
I’m sure the pilots would have gotten that without much difficulty. Yes, it’s slower than ATC would like, but it’s clearly going to be faster than having to repeat it multiple times for a crew that were clearly having difficulty understanding the controller.
Funny how all these “lost at JFK” ATC clips always seem to feature the same Kennedy ground controller. Perhaps he’s part of the problem? To be clear I think that the airline’s crew’s English isn’t up to scratch. But I also think ATC is part of the problem. As a native speaker I struggled with what they were saying for much of it (though I didn’t have the benefit of the taxi chart and an understanding of where there were trying to go and what to expect).
dublinpilot wrote:
Funny how all these “lost at JFK” ATC clips always seem to feature the same Kennedy ground controller
Funny also how these clips feature “ground” controllers in general.
Last time I was in EDDM Munich the ground frequency was a circus. ATC yelling “no no what are you doing!!!” to pilots who missed their taxiway, very angry vibe in general. Whereas in the air all is nice and easy.
Taxiing at large international airports is often the most difficult part of the whole flight. Ground controllers should not expect that every single pilot that comes to their airport from all corners of the world know the airport as well as they do!
Alpha_Floor wrote:
Taxiing at large international airports is often the most difficult part of the whole flight. Ground controllers should not expect that every single pilot that comes to their airport from all corners of the world know the airport as well as they do!
I was taught that the magic words in such a case are “request progressive taxi instructions”.
Airborne_Again wrote:
I was taught that the magic words in such a case are “request progressive taxi instructions”.
I’m curious as to what would happen if someone were to say that on a busy ground frequency such as JFK.
Alpha_Floor wrote:
I’m curious as to what would happen if someone were to say that on a busy ground frequency such as JFK.
Probably better things than if you go the wrong way…
Alpha_Floor wrote:
I’m curious as to what would happen if someone were to say that on a busy ground frequency such as JFK.
Well, the controller in this video is sort of giving the TAM pilots progressive taxi. He’s crystal clear and it’s a little worrying if two airline pilots don’t understand, turn left on 4L and hold at Foxtrot. The thread title is, IMHO wrong, Should read “how does Brazilian ELP work”. Obviously not very well.
Alpha_Floor wrote:
Taxiing at large international airports is often the most difficult part of the whole flight. Ground controllers should not expect that every single pilot that comes to their airport from all corners of the world know the airport as well as they do!
As an aside, this is one great feature of ForeFlight (at least in the US): the geo-referenced taxi chart. Hugely helpful at bigger airports or if you get complicated taxi instructions due to WIP or just lots of traffic.
My answer would be : it works well 
Apart from a couple bait click YT videos, it works so well.
I am ashamed at the english accent of French ATC, especially given the amount of english instruction they receive. Some speak well but many 
