15% is huge. I’ve seen 2-6%. Some brokers however have a minimal charge, which covers airplanes with very low prices, which would not be worthwile even listing otherwise. I’ve heard of 1-2k Euros or x% whatever is more, also depending on the class of plane. A block standard C172 does not give the broker that much work to advertize, a Cheyenne will be much more complex, so different minima may apply.
I am in two minds regarding the test flight. After all, it is, or should be a certified aeroplane, therefore it should fly as expected.
Remember once, purchasing a Commander for my friend. It was at Shoreham. We had gone to Gamston to see one, and the battery was flat. Great sales technique that. On down to Shoreham. The seller was so wound, so tense, that I almost declined the test flight. Me in the back, rolled down the runway, and as he rotated, both cowlings wrapped themselves around the windshield. We had stall warners going off, could see nothing out of the front, and we belted around the circuit, left hand if I remember, at 400’. Full emergency with the fire tenders out et al. I remember thinking that the roofs of the houses looked very close, and that I was probably going to die, in Brighton of all places. Anyway, my friend bought that plane, still has it in fact, and he really learnt that day to always check the Cowal fasteners.
Also managed to knock 6k off the price.
The industry average is 5% but it settles at 4% plus any advertising over and above the norm that the seller requires. I’ve seen marketing proposals of €15K plus 3% from a high end broker but he was planning on advertising the same aircraft asking just €600k and I got the owner a final figure of €660k and charged him 2% (he was a partner in a property syndicate with me hence discount) and it was great to get a turbine machine sold. Some of the aircraft I sold required a huge effort and some no small amount of risk to get across the line. I took a Lake Amphibian that was on the ground for 8 years, did a top end overhaul, put it on the N reg and brought it 1400nm to its new owner in eastern Europe. The owner had given up on it and I got him 8 times what he would have taken for it day one when we first got it started. I won’t do that anymore, the reward is not worth the effort even if you got all your costs plus a % commission.
RobertL – Thank you kindly
William
Peter wrote:
That’s a good article IMHO, especially the bit about a run-out engine making it a good buy.
There are different levels of used planes…the one I am selling has 235 hours on the Hobbs. And is still under factory warranty. In my case the worn out engine theory does not apply since the new owner will be getting a new engine. Some might ask, why are you selling it then, the answer is simple…mission has changed from patch flying to cross country flying…already time to move up the food chain.
The ‘mission’ is first when deciding what airplane to own. After that is budget.
There’s also the strict legality of them paying for a test flight. You don’t know who they are – maybe they’re FAA/CAA?
Surely no problem within the cost sharing regs (in Europe anyway)
Or, one could call it “a payment for a view of the aircraft, which includes a flight”. The problem with that is that you may end up flying with somebody who you are happy to show the plane but they look too weird to fly with safely.
In the same way, training in a situation where money cannot change hands (e.g. N-reg without the DfT/CAA permission, or the instructor not having a JAR/EASA CPL in the old days) has often been done with the payment “for ground school”.
AdamFrisch wrote:
AdamFrisch 28-Dec-15 23:54 #25
There’s also the strict legality of them paying for a test flight. You don’t know who they are – maybe they’re FAA/CAA?Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 28 Dec 23:55
If I remember correctly there is no rule against charging for a sight seeing flight as long as it returns from the same airport it took off from and stays within 50NM from that same airport.
Peter wrote:
Would it fly (be appropriate) that you expect payment for a flight if no sale is concluded? For instance, 250 Euros/hr including landing fees.
If it was me, I would judge this on the basis of how many people want a ride, and their apparent “quality”.Inevitably, charging for a flight can be seen as greed.
But probably a token amount is right… say €100 for a 1hr flight. That will stop a total p1sstaker.
Would you say the same thing if you were selling for example, a warbird?
When I bought my plane we agreed that if the plane was not as advertized I would not have to pay for the cost of flying the plane to my mechanic. The logs were copied and sent to us earlier for review upon which we agreed to have him fly the airplane to my mechanics pre buy inspection. Next we test flew the plane and if it flew well we went to the physical prebuy inspection. If I bought it I would pay for the avgas cost to bring the plane to me. I would pay for the prebuy inspection. Whatever was found wrong at the prebuy he could either fix or adjust the price or withdraw the plane from the market. So there was a give and take with either party.
He did not require a payment for the flight because he already flew the plane 700 NM for the prebuy inspection. I had a mechanic ready for the inspection when he arrived. So he could see I was a serious buyer if there were no major defects found. Thinking back on it, the prebuy was really cursory. Though I guess I made the right decision because Ive had it now for 29 yrs.
If I remember correctly there is no rule against charging for a sight seeing flight as long as it returns from the same airport it took off from and stays Within 50NM from that same airport.
I don’t think that would be permissible in Europe if flown on a profit making basis by a non AOC holding PPL.
Why not get an instructor to fly with them?
