30 degrees bank has the advantage of reducing the negative Gs imposed on the wings.
I wouldn’t drop the flaps. They increase your wing loading so won’t help you go down, while increasing the stress on the wings.
It’s a good idea to practice them but there’s a significant difference between the practice and the reality: you need to protect your engine in the practice, which means not reducing RPM to a level where the prop will drive the engine. In the real emergency, you don’t care about the future potentiel use of the engine.
denopa wrote:
you need to protect your engine in the practice, which means not reducing RPM to a level where the prop will drive the engine.
Is that really an issue? You already do it when practising power-off landings, stalls etc.
Airframe dependent. Yet I would think there is mainly two sources of “uncontrollable” fire: Engine or electrics (unless you carry Jerrycans of fuel e.t.c.)
If it is the engine, shutting it down should eventually extinguish it. If its electrical, shutting down the electrics should do the same and it’s a good idea to carry an extinguisher anyway.
POH will give information mostly on how it’s done airframe dependent.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Is that really an issue?
Yes, as your airspeed in an emergency descent is 2x that of a practice forced landing
The propeller driving the engine is a problem linked to geared engines, for example Cessna 421 or the bathtub Grand Commander (very few still around). Cylinder head shock cooling may be an issue, however if the emergency descent was over several minutes.
For engine fire, fuel off and full throttle to remove fuel in system, is in some manuals. But if it was a high pressure pipe in a fuel injected engine?
With a wood-and-fabric aircraft, and fibreglass cowlings, I tend to avoid high altitude.
Biggest risk might be batteries in mobile devices, especially if connected to a charger.
I like severe sideslips, preferably away from fire if it is predominate on one side. Gear down, if that’s a choice. Flaps and Gear will not be damaged by flying 10% in excess of the state limiting speed, though I’d have an inspection done afterward. The airframe too, can be flown at 110% of Vne, though doing so is unwise, as rough air would be damaging, as would a handling error which introduced significant G.
The prop can drive the engine just fine, though as said, the prop driving a geared engine is not good for the engine. If you’ve got to get down quickly, the engine may not be your prime concern.
Shock cooling is a concern (if it concerns you more than getting down fast), and can happen in a few seconds of closing the throttle, rather than minutes. That’s why I like severe sideslips, you can start down with power, and reduced it gradually, while maintaining a good rate of descent with the slip. Also, the slip can be instantly undone, to recover to normal flight if needed. And yes, you can slip 172’s, even with flaps extended, the placard reads “avoid…” not “prohibited”. If getting down fast is important, I’d rather avoid the hazard of prolonged flight, than the slight handling deficiency of a slipped 172.
A friend of mine recently landed his 182 amphibian while it was on fire. It is suspected that the hydraulic powerpack in the tailboom let go, and the high pressure hydraulic oil was ignited. He got on the runway (wheels up), but the plane burned to a total loss. He was slightly burned, but is okay. Had he been at altitude, he’d have been in real trouble, as there’s no way to direct a fire extinguisher back there by yourself. That said, floatplanes are really draggy, and come down well when the power is at idle.
I’ve merged two identical threads.
In flight fire has to be the most scary scenario possible. This is why certified aircraft have hopefully decent fire protection on the fuel and oil pipes. I recall reading of a number of homebuilts/ultralights where the pilot was overcome by the fire before he could get it down and (obviously) crashed, in flames. One freshly built machine I saw had wiring wrapped around a fuel pipe, and the pipe was the customary clear plastic with no protection. I have a photo of that bit but won’t post it. How it got past the LAA inspector I have no idea (maybe there isn’t one for 450kg?) but there were similar clear plastic tubes (fuel too) running through the cockpit right next to one’s shoulders and that was the correct construction practice. A couple of relevant threads are here and here. I just don’t understand why people skimp on this stuff, although the protected stuff is quite a lot heavier. The RV kits seem to be OK or maybe there is just a culture in the RV crowd to use protected pipes.
Lithium batteries – one thread here – is another risk and I carry one of the protective bags mentioned there. As I wrote in there, my plan is to put the plane on autopilot (if not already) and at 100kt select full flap, and at the onset of stall open the door and chuck the thing out. But if the door comes off (it is a TB20) you might lose the vertical stabiliser… The fire tends to develop gradually initially (with smoke) so I make sure anything that contains such a battery is within the reach of somebody in the plane and if I fly alone it must be within my reach, so never in the back of the plane unless there is someone in the back seat.
I’ve had a couple of “interesting situations” with the KFC225 autopilot servos having the motor armature burning up and making a very strong burning smell. On the first occassion I turned off the autopilot master and pulled the CBs (I suspected the cause) and the smell went away. The second of these incidents was over the Alps… This autopilot has suffered a ~100% failure rate in some of the airframe types to which it was fitted (notably the TB range, and the Cessna Caravan) during its brief OEM life (c. 2000-2003) but HBK won’t fix it because they have sold several k replacement servos at a few k USD each.
Pilot_DAR – can you land an amphibian on a hard runway gear up, without it tipping over?
Peter wrote:
Pilot_DAR – can you land an amphibian on a hard runway gear up, without it tipping over?
Yes, though you’ll wear through the keels at the step on pavement or concrete. You can land on grass :), or ice :) without damage if you can’t get a wheel down. The risk to tipping over comes when people add a “walking wire” between the bows of the floats, and that wire catches on a tall crop during a forced landing. That’s flipped a couple of floatplanes I know of. Sad, as they otherwise would have not have been damaged. In both cases, they were C180/185, with doors on both sides, so the walking wire really was not needed anyway.
In England’s Lake District, thanks to some bright sparks (and other people) at the CAA, the judicially-approved method of mitigating this risk is to keep your main wheels firmly on the water: 
