Introductory Flights

Martin wrote:

I think you missed the bit where the aircraft has to be owned or dry leased by that school/ club.

That would be even better – the owner gets paid for the dry lease of his plane to the club during the introductory flight, and the club gets paid by the passengers and makes a little profit? Wouldn’t that even mean there is no aerial work etc. problem with an N-reg, because even under FAA regulations you are allowed to rent out your plane and get paid for it.

Rwy20 wrote:

Wouldn’t that even mean there is no aerial work etc. problem with an N-reg, because even under FAA regulations you are allowed to rent out your plane and get paid for it.

As long as you’re not doing the flying, it’s not really your problem, is it. I’m not familiar with the aerial work business in the UK. EASA considers introductory flights to be non-commercial but that relates to OPS requirements.

PS: Some excerpts:

9 Introductory Flights

9.10 Can the pilot be paid for conducting the flight?
None of the changes notified in this Notice affect the limitations of the pilot’s licence so if the pilot holds a commercial licence then the pilot can be paid to conduct the flight. If the pilot holds a private licence (PPL, NPPL(A), LAPL) then the pilot is allowed to conduct the flight but cannot be paid.

9.13 Can I conduct an Introductory Flight or Cost Sharing Flight in a non-UK registered aircraft?
For aircraft registered to EASA member states, introductory and cost sharing flights are allowed after August 2016. Prior to August 2016, other European states may not have implemented these changes so check with the relevant state of registry for your aircraft.

For aircraft registered outside the EASA member states, the operator must also comply with the relevant legislation for their state of registry

So it seems you could get paid as a pilot as well. The IN specifically lists licences and the list doesn’t even hint at the possibility of using a foreign, non-EASA licence. However, it doesn’t mention the possibility of using a commercial licence either (in that part). And it seems N-reg is fine as long as you follow FARs. How does FAA treat such an introductory flight?

Specific Danish rules (AIC B 12/2016 of 2016-11-11):

• Max 2 passengers
• Recency on type, not just on class (3 starts / 90 days has to be on type)
• Flight of max 60 minutes
• Visibility minimum 5 km
• Demonstrated crosswind component considered limiting.
• Organisation must be able to document to CAA that these flights only amount to a small fraction of the total activity.

Just like the Frech ones, some of these restrictions are not allowwd by EASA rules. But as we know, EASA has little power. Practicall speaking, for the single pilot / club, it’s simply not the EASA rules which count, it’s the local CAAs rules.

Heck, an AIC in itself isn’t even legally binding. What Danish regulation does it refer to?

boscomantico wrote:

Just like the Frech ones, some of these restrictions are not allowwd by EASA rules. But as we know, EASA has little power. Practicall speaking, for the single pilot / club, it’s simply not the EASA rules which count, it’s the local CAAs rules.

No the NAA can impose additional rules for introductory flights.

NCO.GEN.103 Introductory flights
Introductory flights referred to in Article 6(5)(c) of this Regulation when conducted in accordance with this Annex, shall:
(a) start and end at the same aerodrome or operating site, except for balloons and sailplanes;
(b) be operated under VFR by day;
(c) be overseen by a nominated person responsible for their safety; and
(d) comply with any other conditions stipulated by the competent authority.

They cannot however impose additional rules for cost-sharing.

OK, thanks. My bad. Wonder what c) is supposed to mean…

boscomantico wrote:

Wonder what c) is supposed to mean

In the Danish AIC this is specified so that the Club has to appoint someone who is responsible for “the safety”; he should assure that the pilots know the rules. Also, the responsible person should report the numbers of intro flights to the CAA if queried. Obviously this implies that the responsible person has to know about every intro flight. And the AIC stresses that organisations cannot be formed just to perform these flights, and that it is not a trial lesson and the passenger cannot touch the controls.

boscomantico wrote:

OK, thanks. My bad. Wonder what c) is supposed to mean…

Commercial operators have this requirement:

ORO.GEN.210 Personnel requirements
(a) The operator shall appoint an accountable manager, who has the authority for ensuring that all activities can be financed and carried out in accordance with the applicable requirements. The accountable manager shall be responsible for establishing and maintaining an effective management system

I think NCO.GEN.103(c) was intended as a light version of that.

Gosh, reading Part-NCO isn’t really a pleasure, but reading the other parts seems to be a lot worse…

we do it (Italy) but…mainly with license holders.

For everybody else, it can be arrange but, it’s a bit on a grey line even though, our national CAA is quite flexible on the matter.

cheers