Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

In which EASA country is an on condition Engine/Prop allowed?

@Steve6443
Get your Cirrus on a owner declared AMP and you will never deal with the french CAA again. PM me if you want to know more.

Freelance IRI / CB-IR Instructor
LOWG | Worldwide

As a side note, France has a special rule for experimentals :

  • if you want be allowed to do « special activities », like aerobatics, night flying, IFR, parachute dropping (non commercial), the engine and prop must be certified and maintained along French pre EASA rules (20% max beyond TBO, 5% if beyond calendar TBO). And the mechanic working on the plane must prove his ability to work on this plane via experience and/or training. Of course nobody does that.
  • otherwise, you can put your lawnmower engine and maintain it yourself.

An RV builder and airline pilot asked how to cerify his plane to IFR. He understood he had to convince an inspector who didn’t want to be convinced, so he dropped the idea. It is possible, but an expensive hurdle (better buy a used certified plane).

AFAIUI, there is no legal difference between a lawnmower engine and an aircraft engine with say PMA cylinders.

LFPT, LFEH

Snoopy wrote:

Flight training is not CAT.

Of course it’s not CAT, because it’s not “Transport”. It can be commercial anyways. That’s exactly what I was saying – commercial is completely messed up by EASA.

Germany

Snoopy wrote:

Get your Cirrus on a owner declared AMP and you will never deal with the french CAA again. PM me if you want to know more.

I think you (well officially the issuer) still need to send them notification each time the ARC is renewed, right?

EIMH, Ireland

Snoopy wrote:

@Steve6443
Get your Cirrus on a owner declared AMP and you will never deal with the french CAA again. PM me if you want to know more.

we had our own declared and approved AMP; regardless of this, at 2400 hours the engine HAD to be overhauled – I recall immersing myself in the french regulations, irrespective that we had a separately declared and approved AMP, the maximum was 2 × 10%, nothing more…..

edited to add:

Just looked out the approved AMP and it clearly says the following:

Maintenance Recommendations concerned in Service Bulletins, Service Letters, etc.

Engine Overhaul – 2000h or 12 years – adopted with deviations.

Alternative inspections in accordance with French DSAC/NO Guide G-41-11 local copy annex B (indice C) every 100h / 12 months after reaching TBO 2000h/12years → maximum 2400h.

This was the only modification to our proposed AMP, something the french wanted…. if you look at the attachment, you’ll see more than +20% extension on hours (age is irrelevant) is interdit for the french…..

Last Edited by Steve6443 at 29 Aug 10:57
EDL*, Germany

Part ML supersedes all of that. If you are on an approved maintenance program you have to adhere to the G-41-11 and the biannual IFR radio checks etc; if you’re on a SDMP you don’t.

EIMH, Ireland

@malibuflyer

Of course it’s not CAT, because it’s not “Transport”. It can be commercial anyways. That’s exactly what I was saying – commercial is completely messed up by EASA.

You said

2.1d of 965/2012 says that commercial operations is every flight agains renumeration

In my opinion 965/2012 2.1 doesn’t say every flight against remuneration is commercial. It’s quite clear that it pertains to transport.

965/2012 2.1d:

commercial air transport (CAT) operation’ means an aircraft operation to transport passengers, cargo or mail for remun­eration or other valuable consideration;

I’m interested to understand the problem you are referring to. Thank you.

Last Edited by Snoopy at 29 Aug 21:09
Freelance IRI / CB-IR Instructor
LOWG | Worldwide

Like @zuutroy says, since 24th of March it’s different. The national CAAs are not relevant to owner declared AMPs anymore.

AMP = EASA MIP + ICAs + ADs + TBO/Calebdar extension + Owner Signature.

Freelance IRI / CB-IR Instructor
LOWG | Worldwide

Snoopy wrote:

In my opinion 965/2012 2.1 doesn’t say every flight against remuneration is commercial. It’s quite clear that it pertains to transport.

Hi Snoopy,

took me some time to figure out what you are referring to, but I think I got it. You are using an outdated version of 965/2012. It got changed (amongst others) by 2018/1975. The current version of 2.1d says:
" “commercial operation” means any operation of an aircraft, in return for remuneration or other valuable consideration, which is available for the public or, when not made available to the public, which is performed under a contract between an operator and a customer, where the latter has no control over the operator;"

Germany

Obviously this is country dependent in implementation but I think in general flight training is commercial (because in nearly all cases somebody is making money out of it, even if the destination of the money is not the person doing the work) but various countries have dealt with this by exemption.

This is the most recent UK one I know about.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top