Thanks to your both,
Like you, its probably worth me sitting tight a bit longer Achim until the situation is a little clearer.
I wouldn't mind taking my chances but (not sure if the same applies in G reg a/c) but the annual release to service from the maintenance outfit with the D reg aircraft states if the aircraft is IFR certified or not (ie there is a separate IFR certificate for the aircraft (which it won't have if the workshop doesn't feel it satisfies the requirements (whatever they are)).
In G reg aircraft,AIUI, it seems to be largely up to the pilot to determine if the machine has an instrument fit (ie if it has equipment XY and Z - arguable if it even needs to be serviceable! - you're good to go). So (assuming ive got this correct!) in a G reg, unless its really explicit that one must have 2 such radios, I'd happily depart with one 8.33 knowing in all practical regards that's enough. But in the D reg, if I merrily go accepting IFR clearances or submitting IFR flight plans in an aircraft without an IFR certificate- well... The sky would fall in ( obviously!!).
Ohhhh it's all so tricky :)
... But that converter is lighter than I thought it would be Peter at 320g J
Justin, I have mine on the D-reg too (IFR) and as far I understand the information from the shop (my German is probably not any better than yours :-)) we do not need more than one 8.33kHz nav/com.
Can I ask a doofus question here about the actual frequencies themselves under 8.33kHz spacing....
I presume that it means two extra frequencies are inserted between the traditional 25kHz-spaced frequencies, so instead of having:
122.600 122.625 122.650
we will have:
122.600 122.608 122.617 122.625 122.633 122.642 122.650
Is that correct? Sorry - I'm very slow.
IIRC 8.33kHz spacing uses "channels" that don't necessarily correspond to the frequency they claim to be. Eg. Channel 127.005 is really 127.000MHz.
I could be wrong though.
@BeechFlyer: we're talking about the law here and asking shops or speculating isn't really the best way to find the truth. There is a much easier way: look at the law text.
Flugsicherungsausrüstungsverordnung (FSAV) (air traffic control equipment regulation) applies to all aircraft operated within German airspace, that's everybody who flies over German territory, even when just overflying the country as §1 FSAV defines:
Luftfahrzeuge, die im deutschen Luftraum betrieben werden, müssen mit der für die sichere Durchführung der Flugsicherungsverfahren notwendigen Flugsicherungsausrüstung nach den Vorschriften dieser Verordnung ausgerüstet sein.
So you can conclude that you have to comply with FSAV once you are flying over the territory of Germany.
Now §3 FSAV says what you need to have on board:
zwei UKW-(VHF-)Sende-/Empfangsgeräten (einstellbarer Frequenzbereich: 118,000-136,975 MHz) für den Sprechfunkverkehr im beweglichen Flugfunkdienst mit den Flugverkehrskontrollstellen, wobei für Flüge im oberen Luftraum (oberhalb Flugfläche 245) diese Geräte für den Betrieb im 8,33 kHz-Kanalraster geeignet sein müssen;
Two VHF radios, supporting 8.33kHz when flying above FL245. This is not in line with the EU directive. Legally, a EU directive is above a German law so when in conflict, the EU directive applies. The EU directive clearly states that all VHF for IFR have to support 8.33kHz. The German FSAV requires two VHF and there is absolutely nothing that could support your interpretation of only one VHF requiring 8.33kHz.
Several things can happen until 2014:
FSAV stays as is, then one has to resolve the apparent conflicting statement but the resolution is certainly not that 8.33kHz applies to one VHF
FSAV gets scrapped because it's redundant and Germany will no longer require a 2nd radio
FSAV gets adjusted and states that either one or both radios need to support 8.33kHz
Which one it will be, I don't know. Don't forget that every aircraft flying IFR over the territory of Germany with just 1 VHF is breaking the law and the fine for breaking FSAV is up to 50,000 € per case (§ 6 FSAV states that infractions are treated according to § 58 sec 1 lit 10 which contains the famous "up to 50,000 € per incident). Do it 10 times and you might have to pay 500,000 € (very unlikely but possible).
Has Germany ever actually fined anybody anything for such tenuous avionics "shortcomings", let alone €50k?
Practically speaking, for the alleged criminal offence to be detected in the first place -
and then they have to arrest you and throw you in jail, and/or confiscate the aircraft, because nobody with a brain is going to hang around at that point, and no non-German with a brain will ever revisit Germany if there is a €50k fine waiting.
That sort of fine is a complete joke. Germany is supposed to be a civilised country (post 1945) but they behave like some others that stone you to death for adultery. No other country would fine somebody €50k for having 1 x 8.33 radio instead of 2 x 8.33 radio. Normally, in civilisation, a fine is supposed to reflect the offence.
Other than having a significant incident caused by not having two (which is hard to imagine), it will never be detected or prosecuted.
Achim,
Thanks for looking out the relevant text and the translation and explaining the contradictions in it all. Very helpful.
I take your point that the law is primary but in a way, to the me, what the maintenance outfit thinks does matter because they are the ones giving the IFR certificate. If the outfit doesn't think two 8.33s are needed and will provide the IFR certificate- that's good enough for me, I wouldn't question further :)
Points about the enforceability of said laws accepted!!
Justin
What is the meaning of the German "IFR certificate"?
The way certification normally works is that the aircraft is Type Certificated for VFR only, or for VFR+IFR.
Then, for IFR, it needs to carry the equipment as mandated by the airspace owner.
If it meets that, it is IFR compliant, IAW its TC.
On top of that it may need to carry equipment for compliance with extra stuff e.g. PRNAV (which itself needs crew authorisation) or RVSM, etc.
The State of Registry should not be issuing an "IFR certificate" on top of that.
