Take any Class G airport with full ATC, and a departure before it opens, but in daylight.
I have a feeling that people that do it get chucked off the airport.
If it is class G you don’t need any clearance. I have not seen an airport in class G with TWR, only AFIS, in which case you don’t need clearance, only information. I don’t know if such a thing exists in the UK, in which case it should state in the AIP what should be done.
LFBH is class G out of hours has a tower but it is not manned out of hours ATC or AFIS hours but can still be used for take off or landing, at least it could be the last time I looked. The same applies to LFBN, LFRI and Poitiers (cannot remember the code at the moment). Both LFBH and LFRI can also be used for night vfr, if I remember correctly both have pcl lighting systems. I think there are times when the airport cannot be used but I think it is more to do with noise nuisance than anything else. I have never heard of anyone being penalised for using any of these airports out of ATC or AFIS hours.
I know of a pilot who had to go on an airspace awareness course following a bust of a ATZ in class G. All be it a millitary one. He had other options and I cant remember what they were but the awareness course was the best option.
Peter wrote:
What might happen if you departed at say 6am from an airport which opens 8am?Assume it was daylight so, with no runway lights, there was no safety issue. So you broke the rules of the airport, plus maybe some national or EASA reg.
Rules of the Air Regulations 2015
Movement of aircraft on uncontrolled aerodromes
12.—(1) An aircraft must not taxi on the apron or the manoeuvring area of an uncontrolled aerodrome without the permission of either—
the person in charge of the aerodrome; or
the flight information centre notified as being on watch at the aerodrome
ANO Art 265(6)
(6) Any person who contravenes any provision specified in Part 2 of Schedule 13 is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.
(See Schedule 13 for the linkage)
Personally, I think the UK’s entire The Rules of the Air Regulations 2015 is ultra vires, but I’m not sure I’d want to test that in a UK court.
Dimme wrote:
If it is class G you don’t need any clearance. I have not seen an airport in class G with TWR, only AFIS, in which case you don’t need clearance, only information. I don’t know if such a thing exists in the UK, in which case it should state in the AIP what should be done.
You can have a controlled (towered) airport in class G airspace. In that case traffic taxying, taking off, landing and flying “in the vicinity of the aerodrome” are subject to clearances. The term “vicinity” is defined only as including at least the traffic circuit.
This is used extensively in the UK, but AFAIK nowhere else in Europe. My understanding of UK ATZs is that they demarcate the “vicinity”.
Airborne_Again wrote:
flying “in the vicinity of the aerodrome” are subject to clearances.
Thus airspace cannot be G. By definition G requires no clearance.
Airborne_Again wrote:
My understanding of UK ATZs is that they demarcate the “vicinity”.
Yes. 2,000 ft AAL and a 2.0 or 2.5 NM radius circle (depending the length of the runway.
Thus airspace cannot be G. By definition G requires no clearance.
It is G. Makes no sense at all, it’s a uniquely UK thing. Being in the ATZ makes it mandatory to be in contact with ATC, overriding normal class G rules.
Gloucestershire airport is an example of this – they even have an approach controller with IAPs in class G… crazy! It is an excellent little airport though, with a somewhat American muni airport feel to it. Nice mix of bizjets and GA.
Dimme wrote:
Thus airspace cannot be G. By definition G requires no clearance.
SERA is not entirely consistent here. SERA.6001, Classification of airspace, does say
SERA.6001(a)(7) Class G. IFR and VFR flights are permitted and receive flight information service if requested. All IFR flights shall be capable of establishing air- ground voice communications. A speed limitation of 250 kts IAS applies to all flights below 3 050 m (10 000 ft) AMSL, except where approved by the competent authority for aircraft types, which for technical or safety reasons cannot maintain this speed. ATC clearance is not required.
On the other hand, SERA.5005, Visual Flight Rules says
SERA.5005 (h) VFR flights shall comply with the provisions of Section 8:
(1) when operated within Classes B, C and D airspace;
(2) when forming part of aerodrome traffic at controlled aerodromes; or
(3) when operated as special VFR flights
Section 8 concerns air traffic control. Again SERA.8001 states
SERA.8001
Air traffic control service shall be provided:
(a) to all IFR flights in airspace Classes A, B, C, D and E;
(b) to all VFR flights in airspace Classes B, C and D;
(c) to all special VFR flights;
(d) to all aerodrome traffic at controlled aerodromes
(Interestingly, there is no rule for IFR corresponding to SERA.5005(h).)
So even though the rules could be better written, it should be clear from SERA.8001 that “aerodrome traffic at controlled aerodromes” is controlled, without regard to airspace class! And if you look in AIP-UK you see that with very few exceptions ATZ’s of controlled airports are explicitly class G airspace.
The corresponding rules have been in the International Rules of the Air (ICAO Annex II) at least since I started flying in 1983 so it’s not a new invention either.
