I edited it into italics. The problem with the < pre > formatting is that it generates horizontal scroll bars, etc. It’s not really suitable for citations etc.
But maybe it was corrupted by the time I saw it. The pointed brackets can look like HTML tags to the text processor. See Posting Tips on formatting options on EuroGA.
If you’re VFR and find yourself in deteriorating WX conditions, you could just say: “UNABLE TO CONTINUE VFR, REQUEST TO OPEN IFR”.
But it is poor airmanship IMHO. If the WX is marginal you should have departed IFR, and then you can just cancel.
Sometimes people ask me to join on a flight because I have an IR.
They think they can fly VFR and if things go wrong I’m there in the right-hand seat to save the day.
But that’s not how it works. Switching from VFR to IFR when flying in marginal conditions gives a lot of stress and is potentially dangerous as it can take a while before you get the clearance.
In general I would agree. But after a long VFR flight on top it can always happen that you find yourself on top of a solid overcast when the forceast was Broken or Scattered. If I don’t want to start searching for the “magic hole” in Germany it is is uncomplicated to get an IFR pickup for descent.
GYORC: (position, destination, altitude etc.) request IFR pickup for cloudbreaking
ATC: GYORC, turn xxx, descend 5000 ft, QNH xy, report VMC, IFR starts now ….
Sometimes they ask about POB or othe stuff, but in general it is no problem. Of course I would not do that with ceilings of 500 ft and they won’t give it to you to descend below the MVA.
If you’re VFR and find yourself in deteriorating WX conditions, you could just say: “UNABLE TO CONTINUE VFR, REQUEST TO OPEN IFR”.
I don’t think they will give you anything in the UK in this case…
I don’t think there is an appreciation within ATC that somebody flying at say 3000ft in Class G and (in the winter) collecting ice should have an escape route in the form of a climb to FL150. You would as I say have to declare an emergency and even then it would take minutes at least to coordinate it over the phone. That is likely to be too long if you are in icing. N2195B was one such example – he did crap planning (a pilot with a history of “always flying regardless of wx”) and when he finally asked, heading for the Massif Central, for an IFR clearance, it took way too long to get it (quite some minutes).
They think they can fly VFR and if things go wrong I’m there in the right-hand seat to save the day.
That is done a lot in the UK but the flight is likely to be illegal the moment that happens because the plane won’t be insured for that PIC, so if there is a crash, it’s going to be a matter of who survives and tells the story which delivers the most compensation for themselves 
Peter wrote:
You would as I say have to declare an emergency and even then it would take minutes at least to coordinate it over the phone. That is likely to be too long if you are in icing.
Not really. If you get to that point, you can do whatever is necessary, even if it means breaking regulations. This should obviously be within reason. So when things start getting bad, I can request the clearance. If it takes too long or it’s refused and situation deteriorates further, I can climb now and declare emergency when I have the time for it (in such a case there probably won’t be a reason for postponing it, but generally it’s aviate before communicate). He’ll see what I’m doing and hopefully get traffic out of my way.
PS: Just to be clear, this is not to be done out of spite. Make your situation clear. But when push comes to shove, you don’t need the clearance. This leads to a broader discussion about right of an ATCO to refuse you a clearance. Not asking for that clearance or declaring emergency too late says something about your airmanship.
Yes I would suggest if push really comes to shove and you have declared a mayday you do what is necessary. The chances of being anywhere near a passing cat at ga levels must be very remote anyway and if you are transponding even without coordination they will get a traffic alert.
Arent there many occasions when you are “vfr on top” where the descent involves some imc and strictly you should declare ifr, not that it will give you any extra priviliges in open fir, other than more chance of a traffic service should you so request?
That is done a lot in the UK but the flight is likely to be illegal the moment that happens because the plane won’t be insured for that PIC, so if there is a crash, it’s going to be a matter of who survives and tells the story which delivers the most compensation for themselves
Assuming this was a deliberate arrangement before, i would argue that the pilot was entitled to seek any reasonable remedy to protect the safety of the flight where there was an incursion into unintentional imc – which could be a pan or transferring P1 to a suitably qualified pilot. Then again you may as well add your friend to the policy as i guess there might be little or no increase in the premium.
Arent there many occasions when you are “vfr on top” where the descent involves some imc and strictly you should declare ifr, not that it will give you any extra priviliges in open fir, other than more chance of a traffic service should you so request?
There is no “I declare IFR” terminology, even though one visitor to one of our fly-ins did do just that 
If you need to descend through a solid layer and want to be 100% legit then you need to “request an IFR clearance”. Obviously you knew that
Assuming this was a deliberate arrangement before, i would argue that the pilot was entitled to seek any reasonable remedy to protect the safety of the flight where there was an incursion into unintentional imc – which could be a pan or transferring P1 to a suitably qualified pilot. Then again you may as well add your friend to the policy as i guess there might be little or no increase in the premium.
Hmm… I think one issue might be with a rented plane. Often (especially in some places e.g. the French aeroclub scene) insurance requires the PIC to be a club member. The existence of the “contingency IR holder” is unlikely to be disclosed to the school because they will not like a renter launching into potentially IFR conditions.
Yes; a private owner could add a RHS IR to his policy with just a phone call. I’ve done that.
There is no “I declare IFR” terminology, even though one visitor to one of our fly-ins did do just that
I dont quite follow. Surely if you are OCAS you are what you are, so under a basic service, you declare VFR, perhaps get to a point you want to go through the base for some reason and call IFR, maybe something along the lines “G-BXXX is 5,000 feet, overhead DIngo will be descending 2,500, IFR and becoming IMC in the descent, requesting a traffic service”. I dont see how else you could legally descend through the base in IMC, although I know many people dont bother to say anything.
OK; I get your drift… as you suggest, most people would not bother saying anything. In Class G, it’s all the same… the only time I tell ATC I am in IMC is when they are feeding me contacts 5nm away
Peter wrote:
the only time I tell ATC I am in IMC is when they are feeding me contacts 5nm away
Did you read the article linked to in this thread? It would have explained why that is not a good response.
