Ibra wrote:
So I need a GPS or DME+VOR to fly a Cub VFR over open water or deserted land in Class D under Part NCO?
I’m laughing about the idea of filing a flight plan to fly a Cub cross country, with continuous ATC contact. It’d be fun to try it, but I think ATC might think you were stupid.
My Luscombe didn’t have a DG or transponder and I remember one of the local airports once giving me a heading to clear their Class D, and the resulting dialog. In the end the instruction was “OK, just head towards the bay, see ya” or something like that, although the wet compass would have worked with a little care. I think the controller was an ex-military guy, a trainee, with little experience of light aircraft.
Silvaire wrote:
I’m laughing about the idea of filing a flight plan to fly a Cub cross country, with continuous ATC contact. It’d be fun to try it, but I think ATC might think you were stupid.
Why? With the Cub I probably wouldn’t fly as high as I do now, so I would be more than happy to get some traffic info from Langen Information. I rather felt that ATC wonders what I am doing flying alone along at FL75, merely getting handovers to the next frequency every now and then :) What the Cub is missing are long-range tanks – I wouldn’t mind being airborne a whole summer’s day’s worth (provided I bring both a full and empty jug along …), the annoyances of flying for me are purely on the airfield side.
Silvaire wrote:
I’m laughing about the idea of filing a flight plan to fly a Cub cross country,
Might be – the same way German pilots are laughing about the thought that one could get a ticket for flying over a golf course just because our president happens to play a round of golf there.
Regulation is different across countries and this thread is about what is required for compliance and not what is practical for actual flying.
Silvaire wrote:
I’m laughing about the idea of filing a flight plan to fly a Cub cross country, with continuous ATC contact. It’d be fun to try it, but I think ATC might think you were stupid
You will need an FPL for cross-corder flying even in Cubs 
, especially when you are not transponder equipped, flying bellow radar/airspace with a flying permit rather than a CoFA 
On ATC perception, a friend has an IFR equipped LaMaule and always get laughed by ATC every time he asks for “IFR clearance” on the ground/air (he is the kind of 200ft ILS and 0ft ceiling takeoff and only need 500ft ceiling to make it to his grass)
For flying high than 6000ft without transponder, I find it it is always worth talking to ATC even in class G, people don’t expect you to be up there and assume you are dimmed bellow airspace, I recall I was flying a motor-glider SF25C when a KC135 decided to join the VFR show at FL140, they spot us and did make sure we will never have the nerves to go up there again
For weird FPLs, I also had to file them for gliders few times,
- In Morocco, Class D from SFC-FL200 with procedural route/altitude control and “VFR landout clearance”
- In Scotland, to get Class C when TRA(G) is not active, not that I made it to FL195 that day
Luckily in the UK we don’t have to file FPL or get IFR clearances to fly gliders in clouds, only a turn coordinator !
VFR Cubs in clouds is still illegal, except when the mags are off on a side note the Cub takes a lot of dirt on it’s wing and surfaces and still flies 100%, I suspect it still manages ice better than most non-FIKI touring SEP, but given it is open cockpit with no comfy heater, I learned a good lesson: it is a bit harsh up there as measured by OAT on my face
Malibuflyer wrote:
what is required for compliance and not what is practical for actual flying.
Well, ideally I was looking for a way to combine both. It seems that keeping a VOR/ILS receiver might be the most practical solution as it provides legal compliance, emergency ILS let-down capability, and requires no database subscriptions etc.
Sebastian_H wrote:
Why? With the Cub I probably wouldn’t fly as high as I do now, so I would be more than happy to get some traffic info from Langen Information. I rather felt that ATC wonders what I am doing flying alone along at FL75, merely getting handovers to the next frequency every now and then
With my Luscombe I used to fly at 2000 ft over terrain, or 1000 ft agl in completely flat country. That kind of flying is actually more fun and rewarding than what I’m doing now with higher wing loading and more power, but the problem is speed so low that you can’t go anywhere very quickly. Higher altitude typically makes it worse from the point of view of winds which are a significant fraction of IAS, and ATC can do nothing for you at lower altitude – even if you can maintain radio contact, they can’t see your traffic on radar and aren’t likely talking to them either.
ADS-B works a bit better for traffic down low, if you and that traffic are equipped, or alternately if you’re low enough and slow enough you could also get Flightaware traffic via Foreflight over the internet. I haven’t tried that when flying but it works well on my back porch – with Foreflight open every plane I can hear I can ‘see’ and identify
Silvaire wrote:
Higher altitude typically makes it worse from the point of view of winds which are a significant fraction of IAS,
Except on the rare days you have tailwind, I guess.
Silvaire wrote:
ATC can do nothing for you at lower altitude – even if you can maintain radio contact, they can’t see your traffic on radar and aren’t likely talking to them either.
In my experience flying what was low (for me…) in France, they get you everywhere, except near their north-east border. And from my experience flying VFR in the 4000ft-FL085 band (ground around 1000ft to 2000ft), from the traffic reports “unknown altitude” I was getting, and seeing these traffic hugging the ground, they have some kind of radar return pretty low.
