That is not an unusual thing; he is basically agreeing to underwrite the cost of fixing anything that is found, before you buy it.
The obvious drawback is that the Annual will be done by his maintenance company, which he is “in bed with”, and which has an incentive to cover up any bad work they have done before. This does happen; I know of such cases, some not very funny ones…
The thing to ask him is whether he will pay for an Annual done by your maintenance company. If he declines, even if this were to be done after you bought the plane, then you know there is something fishy. Also there is the practical matter of extracting money out of the seller post-sale.
This seller is a known Aircraft broker/reseller with their own maintenance shop.
They imported it from USA last year, it’s still N-reg and they have a FAA Tech (own company) doing the Annuals for them.
They are open to do a inspection by third-party at the site, when they do an annual.
And all airworthy issues they find will be fixed at seller cost, non airworthy issues they don’t want to pay for.
If there are any major problem/cost they want to have the right to cancel the deal.
Will ask if they will pay for the inspection then, instead of me.
Keep us updated! The more Arrow-drivers in Sweden, the better. Make sure you also have room for propeller overhaul in your budget. A three-blade has the looks, but is more expensive to overhaul than a two-blade, especially the freight.
No experience of Turbo-Arrow’s as an owner of a NA, of course biased! I have a pretty good network in southern Sweden, PM if any questions.
AndersB wrote:
Keep us updated! The more Arrow-drivers in Sweden, the better. Make sure you also have room for propeller overhaul in your budget. A three-blade has the looks, but is more expensive to overhaul than a two-blade, especially the freight.No experience of Turbo-Arrow’s as an owner of a NA, of course biased! I have a pretty good network in southern Sweden, PM if any questions.
I flew Archer II and III and now when I’m taking my IFR we are flying in an NA Arrow II.
So I like them…
I’m looking into several planes and try to decide what I like most.
Hard to decide… It’s lots of money, and for a Arrow III Turbo they ask 130.000 – 180.000 EUR and that’s much.
That’s why I’m thinking it might be better to add more money and then there are other contenders.
Anyway this is a useful thread for me.
That would be a post buy. Your the owner paying for work needed.
Presumably his engineer would do the inspection.
You need YOUR engineer to do it – the guy who will be doing YOUR inspections in future.
Contact the people who might service it first, before buying
Just few “cents” regarding mentioned infamous continental tsio360 in Turbo Arrow.
It’s not true that it is such a horrible engine. People claiming that – usually don’t use it in a correct way.
I have one just exceeding TBO 1400hrs with all cylinders original and turbo as well.
If you read the manual carefully you will see that maximum recommended continuous power is 65% and flying with 31-33 inches at 2400 rpm is definitely more than 65%. That’s why you need to change cylinders so often.
The best power setting regarding to engine longevity is 55%. 28 inches at 2200 rpm at sea level and about 26 at FL100.
Takeoff 100% full rich, climb 75% – about 32-33 inch at 2400 rpm at sea level leaned just a bit (200F ROP at leanest cyl. )
Cruise 55% leaned A LOT – until engine roughness (or 20F lean of peak if you have an engine monitor) – you cannot harm the engine at that power setting but you will see how clean the spark plugs are after 100 hours!
Always taxi with brutally leaned engine. That will keep the plugs clean and what is more important – the valve guides and piston rings will not become clogged. Don’t lean just a bit as you risk taking off with leaned engine. Lean a lot – even if you forget to push the red knob the engine will not be able to spool up – it will only work smoothly on very low power needed for taxi.
5 minutes of idle cooling is a myth. The turbo is coldest just after touchdown. So then if you taxi without higher power – more than 1200 rpm your turbo will not be any cooler. Just try to taxi with minimum required power. Of course if you taxi on the grass and need higher power – then wait 1-2 minutes on 1000 rpm.
I know that flying on 55% pwr is a bit slower but if you calculate it – you loose just 10-12 knots of TAS and gain a ton of money with possible cylinder replacements and 10-15% more fuel burn.
Raven wrote:
know that flying on 55% pwr is a bit slower but if you calculate it – you loose just 10-12 knots of TAS and gain a ton of money with possible cylinder replacements and 10-15% more fuel burn.
How fast are you going with 55%… 120kt?
I would like to have Cross Country plane that can cruise 150-155kt without “breaking” the engine.
So you think you shouldn’t use 75% all time on the Turbo Arrow?
Yes. Im afraid something like 120-125kt TAS.
I think you should not use higher power unless you calculate top overhaul every few hundred hours.
Unfortunately this engine is a bit overpowered comparing its size (200hp vs 360 cu in).
The good news is if you do it like that – you can easily exceed the TBO without any repairs if the engine was initially in good condition and no factory screw up.
A well rigged Warrior will fly at 120KTAS full throttle all day, the IO-320 probably good to go on condition comfortably to 3000 hours, no propeller governor OH or cylinder work. I never understand why UK clubs putter around in them at 95 knots and 2200 RPM, not efficient or good for the engine.
Apologies for thread drift.
Raven wrote:
Yes. Im afraid something like 120-125kt TAS.
Then you could just as well fly a normally aspirated Archer, which will give you 126 KTAS at FL90 and 120 KTAS at FL120. You’ll save money not just on the turbo but also on the landing gear. And you can use unleaded AVGAS!
