Radar control vs radar coverage

arj1 wrote:

when the nation’s ATS provides enroute services?

Mostly above a nation’s own airspace, although there are Functional Airspace Blocks near the FIR boundaries, where a nation has allowed part of their sovereign airspace to be delegated to an adjoining state to improve air traffic management.

There are also other strange bits: The UK (not ROI) has claimed and controls most of the upper East Atlantic. One major ANSP’s services “surrounds” the Republic of Ireland.

ATC can and does provide a service in G.

It can even “clear” you to enter an ATZ or fly an IAP which extends outside the ATZ.

All rather ambiguous…

In the UK they also can, but they don’t want to?

It’s down to ATC funding. It is 100% political.

arj1 wrote:

So to summarise it: normally (in most countries) for ATC to control the traffic (for example an a/c flying under Eurocontrol FP) the a/c can be OCAS but must be inside the area of Radar Coverage.

I wouldn’t say that radar coverage is required. But of course OCAS, the quality of FIS depends crucially on radar coverage.

Peter wrote:

It’s down to ATC funding. It is 100% political.

The funny thing is that when you are with Scottish Approach flying to Iceland, they do lose radar coverage, however there is no problem to clear you “direct” to a point or a route…

France provides ATC services in G when you cross from the UK to France.

You can get a service provided by ATC but I don’t think it’s called a Control service when in uncontrolled airspace. I think they can only provide FIS.

In France, in Class G, it’s only “information de vol” or “information traffic” but then you can fly as you wish in nearby airspace with seamless handovers, in UK, in Class G, you can get far more superior service vs traffic which is Deconfliction Service (still a FIS ) but then you will be reminded not to hit airspace and laod of freecalls

“control radar” or “guidage radar” is only available to CAS (Class D or Class E) but I understand it’s highly not advisable in Class E for IFR where it is mostly on published routes and are only monitored by “assistance radar”

What we learn here is that IFR in class G airspace is permitted above 3000ft as long as 2 way radio contact with an AT service can be maintained. Nowadays you must also have mode S.
Clearances can only be given by ATCOs but FISO’s might assist you as sometimes they are the same person switching hats depending on whether you are inside or outside CAS.
You are often told when you are leaving controlled airspace. At this point if you wish to stay inside or enter CAS further on and you are not sure whether you are cleared to do so it is sometimes a good idea to ask at this point.
Like in the USA you will be told if that service can or cannot “see” you on radar. If there is no radar contact you can continue to fly in class G but you will be asked more often for position reports.
In class G you can receive, on request, an information service, this is not limited to traffic information.
The AT service set up in France might be different to some other countries, especially that of the UK. There are 4 (or it might be 5) ACC, area control centres which cover the whole country and provide both ATC and FIS. These ACC work closely with the "Towers " at various airfields. In certain areas the “towers” will also provide the approach service. In other situations "approach " will be provided by an ACC.
Radar, either primary or secondary is available to ACC’s and to some Towers.
The job of who provides what service and when is laid down," as I understand it" in the controller procedures text book and it is not expected that the pilot should know this detail as long as the ATS meets its aims as set in the ICAO annexes.
Eg efficient traffic flow management and alert service.
In France is known for its bureaucracy. We tend to talk of Air Traffic Services as a whole before breaking it down to whether that is ATC or FIS.