Radios and electrical systems (VW)

Legally you can’t operate a Mode A/C transponder in Germany but in reality you get away with a Mode C (I hear it all the time on ATC, they seem to be OK). Otherwise you have to limit your flying to airspaces without transponder requirement.

The gliding community favours the Becker radios because of the much lower electrical power consumption than the Trig, this makes battery power for the radio a good option.

On an aircraft of this type I would go for a battery powered radio with an internal antenna, it would keep the cost and complication to a minimum.

Also: I think you shouldn’t worry about 8,33 ability, your craft being – just like mine – neither of flying very high or going IFR. For a couple of years, at least, 25 KHz should do.

Be careful what you say. I’ve just been investigating the Dutch situation, and here’s the breakdown.

All military CTRs and TMAs will convert to 8.33 kHz frequencies during 2015. The EHEH CTR and TMA have already been converted.
All civil CTRs and TMAs will convert somewhere during 2016.
All uncontrolled fields will need to convert, at the latest, september 2017.

So, yes, you can still fly around with a 25 kHz radio until september 2017, but you will become more and more restricted. At this time, you can’t even cross the EHEH CTR/TMA anymore if you’re not 8.33 kHz equipped, and this will get worse and worse over the next two years.

Furthermore, according to the AIC on this topic (Dutch AIC 06/2013), since 17 nov 2013 all new aircraft radio installations have to be 8.33 kHz anyway. It’s not allowed anymore to install 25 kHz radios in a new aircraft. (Technically, this is implemented slightly differently. You will not get an initial CofA for an aircraft that doesn’t have 8.33 kHz radios.)

This is not the Dutch being silly or anything. It’s an EU/EASA requirement, but stems from an ICAO recommendation. So similar timetables will apply to other countries as well. Personally, I would not invest in a 25 kHz radio now, knowing that it will be obsolete in 2.5 years time.

What’s the practical use of a mode A/C-transponder in Germany?

Where transponder are mandatory they must be class S, legally.
I have ofteen been told that, in daily life, ATC staff don’t care very much and that a request (crossing a CTR, for example) will often be granted when a mode C transponder is active, otherwise much less chance.
Achimha said quite the same thing.

Be careful what you say. I’ve just been investigating the Dutch situation

Well, that’s one more reason for avoiding Dutch airspace… But there were quite a few, already (TMZ from 1200’, ELT requirement, …).

But of course no shooting at the messenger! Thanks for info!

From 2018 all radios will have to have 8,33 kHz spacing in EU, so you will have to change your radio anyway. I installed a Trig TY91 last year and love it because you don´t have to fiddle with changing stations: The big knob does the MHz, the small the kHz, and pushing the knob sets 8,33 if required. With Beckers or any other types there is a lot more to it when changing stations – and that is what you have to do a lot in the air. At one pound the Trig is very light, power needs will most likely not be higher than other modern types. The remote operating head of the Trig requires a bit more wiring but nothing compared to the basic wiring to connect to intercom etc. , OK, in this particular case may not be a factor. A new radio from Trig will be around € 1500.- but it was worth it to me. There could be a minor problem with the Becker when mounted in a motor aircraft as it seems to give more problems with noise coming from ignition wires and so on. No problem in gliders , of course. That is what I read elsewhere. Is there a chance to mount a small pulley on the crankshaft to drive the Kubota ? Otherwise I´d rather stick to accu supply that is easily charged. And you don´t talk a lot in the air usually so that should do for many days. You like a photo from a very, very different installation ? It is a 3 000 Watt 24 V DC ,four brush dynamo on the Yak engine, bevel gear driven, right on top of the engine. That must be about 15 kg , though you will ever need one third of the power with all systems on. The rest is pneumatics, no hydraulics in this aircraft. Vic

Jan, not wishing to rain on your parade, but it took me about two minutes to find the Belgium AIC on this as well. It’s Nr. 11 / 2014 (dated 18 sep 2014) and it amounts to the same thing. “By the end of 2017 all radio’s operating in the aeronautical VHF band shall have 8.33 kHz spacing capability.”

They’re less specific about the conversion timetable than the Dutch but I can’t imagine all aeronautical frequencies switching over together at the stroke of midnight, Jan 1st 2018. There will be some sort of gradual implementation.

For the UK, the following document is interesting. It also lists an absolute deadline of 1 jan 2018, but from 17 nov 2013 onwards all new or upgraded radios, fitted to aircraft, must already be 8.33 kHz capable.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/InformationNotice2013018.pdf

The EU regulation talks about a 31-dec-2018 deadline:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:320:0014:0024:EN:PDF

On a slight digression – given that just about all lower airspace stations are on 25kHz spacing, why would these frequencies change to 8.33 ones?

I mean why change?

The UK proposed a frequency tax, under which an 8.33 frequency (i.e. 2/3 of the possible ones, since every 3rd 8.33 frequency is really a 25kHz frequency) was going to be 1/3 of the price. But that proposal got killed. It ran a long way, considering it’s amazing stupidity.

Authorities want to tell us that European airspace was too crowded for 25 kHz spacing so they force us to 8,33 kHz radios. There is a gradual change to that in introducing more and more airspaces with required 8,33 frequency approaching 2018. One reason we had to skip the Baklan radio last year for the Trig after the deadline of November 2013 had passed for “new” radio registering so now its only 8,33 for new registrations. Vic

QuoteOn a slight digression – given that just about all lower airspace stations are on 25kHz spacing, why would these frequencies change to 8.33 ones?

The authorities claim that the current 760 frequencies in the aeronautical VHF band are not enough to sustain future growth, so more are needed. Every 25 kHz frequency that converts to 8.33 kHz means that two more 8.33 kHz frequencies become available. So with full 8.33 kHz implementation the number of frequencies just about triples to a little over two thousand.

Quoteevery 3rd 8.33 frequency is really a 25kHz frequency

Well, not quite. It is true that the center frequency of every 3rd 8.33 kHz frequency is the same as the center frequency of a 25 kHz frequency. But the bandwidth (or “tolerable frequency variation” or whatever you’d like to call it – the amount of frequency variation that’s possible before the signal interferes with the next frequency) is cut in a third.

There’s a clever system to distinguish between the old 25 kHz spaced frequency, and the new 8.33 kHz spaced ‘channel’ which really operates on the same frequency, but with a narrower bandwidth. For example, the old EHEH 131.0 frequency was a 25 kHz frequency, so anything between 130.9875 ( 131.000 minus 25/2) and 131.0125 (131.000 plus 25/2) was fair game. The new ‘channel’ is now called 131.005 – which really means anything from 131.000 minus 8.33/2 to 131.000 plus 8.33/2.

An example of the frequency/channel conversion tables can be found here: http://www.jeppesen.com/download/briefbull/fra99-f.pdf but in short:

‘channel’ 131.000 is the old 25 kHz spaced frequency, centered around 131.000
‘channel’ 131.005 is the new 8.33 kHz spaced frequency, centered around 131.000
‘channel’ 131.010 is the new 8.33 kHz spaced frequency, centered around 131.00833
‘channel’ 131.015 is the new 8.33 kHz spaced frequency, centered around 131.01666
‘channel’ 131.020 does not exist.
‘channel’ 131.025 is the old 25 kHz spaced frequency, centered around 131.025
and so forth.

Radios with 8.33 kHz capability will automatically select 8.33 kHz or 25 kHz bandwidth as appropriate. Just like selecting 121.5 really enables a 100 kHz bandwidth instead of 25 kHz.