Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Flying schools which don't allow self fly hire in aircraft used for training

Someone recently mentioned this to me, suggesting that it is not a good thing.

Obviously they do it if the plane is “nice” and they don’t want people to break it

Under this is the unspoken fact that a PPL doesn’t mean you are a competent pilot…

But I remembered that FTA also didn’t rent out their planes; a former director told me personally this was because people kept “breaking them”.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Nothing new. But every business can make it own decisions. As a pilot who merely wants to rent, just stay away from schools (and clubs that focus on training), as you will always be incompatible with that, and nobody will be happy. Unfortunately, many people, after getting their PPL, remain loyal to / stuck with their previous training outfit, thus never breaking out of that very limiting circle, as they don‘t know where else to go.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Renters can be a pain for flying schools – they want to take aircraft away for periods with limited hours return, breakdowns can see an asset stuck away from base/maint and it’s just generally disruptive to the flying programme. Overall though the profit return is negligible and it doesn’t keep your FIs earning either, so many schools prefer to keep their limited assets tied to the training programme.

On the other hand some schools have the diversity of fleet to accept hours builders / rentals in the mix, certainly the school at Oxford I’ve been at today (PFT) does that really well and there are aircraft like a 182T as well for higher end trips.

People get bent out about this sometimes but how many people expect to rent a car from the driving school they learnt with? It’s just different market models at play

Posts are personal views only.
Oxfordshire, United Kingdom

I know of a few schools that have aircraft split into “used mostly for training” and “used for other flying as well”.
Some schools will prioritise training, for sure, but most schools would only prioritise the critical bits, like QXC, skills test etc, otherwise – whoever books first gets the plane.

EGTR

Here in Cannes they rent mostly to previous students, with the excuse of skill maintenance. Otherwise it’s very rare…

LFMD, France

Certain microlight schools don’t allow their aircraft to be used for self fly hire as this increases the operating costs. You can send someone solo if you service the aircraft yourself but for self fly hire it has to be signed off by an inspector. So some schools simply don’t bother.

A couple of schools have a savy business model. As the UK regards flight training as a commercial operation (even though it isn’t according to easa and the retained EASA regs) they use aircraft within TBO for flight instruction but when they go over TBO they move them onto a none equity group scheme for the self fly hire market.

Last Edited by Bathman at 07 Jul 11:54

Microlights ULs here do not have to be signed off by an inspector and self hire of them at the clubs is roughly the same as hiring an SEP.
The whole thing about ULs in France is that they are regulated.as little as possible and have very little, if any involvement with EASA.

France

Those schools who simply wish to train and not to rent out have a particular business model. The important bit is to know ahead of time, that you will need to move on after flight training.

Lots of schools and clubs do what has been said here: They have a trainer fleet which is basically off limits to flying away for more than a day plus they have some airplanes which are set for travel. e.g. some Cessna 150/172 for training and one or two travellers like Arrows or 172 RG and so on. The school I work with has Jodels for training (which also can be rented out) and SR22 for travel, plus my Mooney which also is used by some of their post grad students. Myself, I am quite open to people who come and say we want the plane for longer periods, we discuss what they wish to do, how many hours approximately, and usually find a way to do it.

Clearly, renting out for travel is a totally different business model and needs different insurances and conditions. Renters need to be aware what costs are coming their way and rental organisations need to be aware of the risks and have an organisation in place to deal with them.

Most rental organisations have minimal hours which need to be paid nevertheless if they are flown or not, something between 2-4 hours a day.

The main reason for people who fly this way to get involved in a syndicate or buy their own ride is exactly that. If you want to travel, if you can do 60-100 hours per year, if you have the financial means, ownership, also shared, is the way to go in this case, unless you got a really good rental organisation which give a lot of lee way.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland
8 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top