Time From Car Park to Take Off

For me it is very similar. I usually go to the airport around 60 min before off block time, if I have already done everything from home (including flight plan). As I have to request the fuel (I cannot taxi to a fuel station), there is also an unpredictable element – how long will it take until I am able to get hold of the responsible person and when will they come to refuel the aircraft. Thus I’ve had cases where I was ready to taxi 15 minutes before the block time as well as cases when I could not even make it on time and had to hurry not to miss my slot.

As Zurich is a very well organized airport (airlines wise), I don’t need to be at the airport for a commercial flight more than 60 minutes in advance, unless it’s Christmas or I am flying to the US (when additional checks can easily kill three hours). If I fly with hand luggage only, I can go 30 minutes before the flight and still catch it without an issue. So in my opinion, commercial aviation is generally faster than GA.

dublinpilot wrote:

So my question is, is this atypical?

I would say no. For a private flight I would also calculate an hour. When I instruct, it can be done in 30 minutes but only if I keep kicking the student all the time.
Doing my commercial stuff, our shortest legally approved check in time is 30 minutes before off-blocks, a “late check-in”, sometimes necessary because of duty and rest time regulations. But this is a really challenge and only works if both pilots do their part of the job and we have ground support for pulling the plane out of the hangar.

Your list would then get these numbers:

Walking from the car park, through the airport, to the aircraft:
– 5 minutes if there is no queue at the security check

Doing a walk around, fuel check etc
– 2 minutes if our maintenance has done a post-flight inspection, otherwise 5. Not more than 5 on a training aircraft.

Checking tech log for any issues from the previous pilot
– 0 minutes. I must confess that I don’t do that most of the time. At work we will get informed about it and at the flying school it is not common practise to enter defects in the log. Something is always defective anyway

Setting up my headsets, GPS, Pilot Aware
- 0 minutes. I do that while the engine warms up (piston) and/or the gyros and avionics stabilise (turbine)

Organising kneeboard, flight log etc
- 0 minutes. Nothing to organise there. One flight log on top of the kneeboard, all charts in the iPad

Briefing passengers
- 0 minutes for students and recurrent passengers, not more than 1 minute otherwise.

Getting the ATIS
- 30 seconds.

Start up and taxi to fuelling area
Waiting on the fuel truck
- 0 minutes. The fuel truck comes to the parking position at my base, usually while we do the walkaround.

Checking if the ATIS has changed
- Once is enough. And if the controller says “information is Charlie now” when I request startup (having said “information Bravo received”) I will simply lie and say “of course, Charlie!” Who cares anyway.

Getting start up permission a second time
- That would be the first time in my case, 1 minute.

Warming the engine
- We don’t do that normally. Taxi is long enough and there is almost always a brief hold at the holding position. Not necessary with turbines anyway.

Taxiing to the runway
- 2 to 3 minutes, depending on the runway. ( 20 minutes in Madrid )

Doing engine checks
- 30 seconds in a single, 1 minute in a twin. No checks with turbine.

When I’m at LDVA (last 6 months and from 2011 to 2015) it’s typically 15-30 min from parking the car to be airborn (depending if I need immigration and customs). The aircraft waits in front of the hangar refueled and checked. When I was at LDZA (Zagreb main airport) it usually took between 30 and 60 min, depending on if I need to refuel, waiting for security, customs and immigration.

I will simply lie and say “of course, Charlie!” Who cares anyway.

I usually reply “will check Charlie” which is also a lie.

I think this depends on your ‘ecosystem’. In North America I was flying all the time (at least twice a week) and was very ‘current’. If you are doing it frequently, it is not hard to get an efficient flow.

I had a key fob for the airport gate, so you drive up to the hanger, park beside it, open the doors and push the airplane out . A quick walk around and fuel check, then fire it up (a simple PA28). While it is warming, sort out anything you need to arrange in the cockpit, get the ATIS, and taxi clearance. Depending on the runway in use, the closest one was right beside the hangar, so you take off immediately.

Doors: 1 minute
Aircraft out: 2 minutes
Doors 1 minute
Walk Around and fuel check 5 min. * policy was to fuel to the tabs after a flight, so that quick departures were possible.
Warm up, taxi, run-up, 5-10 min.
Airborne immediately.

I would say that a regular quick process would be 15 min from car to airborne, with the fastest possible in 8-10 minutes (limited warm-up). Given how easy this was, I would sometimes fly the land-plane to the airport on the other side of the city where my float plane was located. It was much easier than an hour plus drive across the city in traffic.

With passengers, this would normally be longer, say half an hour. That being said, my wife would close the hangar and load the aircraft while I was pre-flighting, so it can be a help if a regular passenger (who knows what they are doing and is safe around airplanes) is part of your routine.

In the UK, with the Yak (flying much less frequently and more things to preflight) it would commonly take an hour, although I eventually probably worked this down to half an hour. It is also kind of strange, where some airfields in the UK want you to ‘book out’ and chat with ops prior to doing anything. This can easily add 15-20 minutes…

This is why some pay serious money for a “full service” shop.

One guy I used to know kept a big MEP in a maintenance company. He phoned them, jump in his car (1hr, but that is frankly another issue, to live so far from the plane) and the plane would be ready, fuelled, and lined up to preflight and taxi out.

If you get your plane serviced at the kind of shop which charges 5k as a baseline, typically 2x that, they will offer that service to their valued clients.

My time from airport car park to takeoff can be 20 mins, of which 10 mins is taxi time and power checks etc. But not if it is a long trip and stuff needs loading and organising, passengers briefed, etc. I then allow 45 mins from arriving at the airport to engine start.

I have the benefit of a really great fire crew which moves the plane out of the hangar, on a reasonable notice, 1hr+.

Driving to the airport takes me 20 mins, which is priceless too.

dublinpilot wrote:

So my question is, is this atypical?

Not at all. I never calculate with less than 45 minutes except when I know I don’t need to refuel or I’m flying with another pilot or knowledgable passenger who can help. A noticeable amount of time is spent walking between the club house and hangar / fuel station with keys. (Of course they are on opposite sides of the club house…)

dublinpilot wrote:

In the various discussions that come up from time to time about the merits of GA versus flying on an airline, inevitably people comment about a time saving giving that they don’t have to wait around at the airport x hours before departure when using GA, as they do for commercial flights.

Very good point!

I think one aspect in both scenarios is regularity/frequency. I’ve had this discussion here once with @Stephan_Schwab and we discovered that while I found great time savings in CAT, he found great time savings in self-flying.

The more you fly CAT, the less time you need. Not only due to frequent flyer benefits but also because you know EXACTLY how many minutes you have e.g. for checking luggage at the various airports (rather than what they communicate) and you of course get more efficient with this. When I’m travelling with friends, they invariably like to be at the airport 90 minutes, sometimes even 120 before the flight. It’s pointless to do that but they feel better with it. I usually get up 1 hour and 10 minutes before scheduled departure here in DUS because I know exactly how much time I need and I do this around 100 times/year. I also know that if the check-in desk is closed for the flight, it takes me a smile and them a quick phone call to reopen and get my luggage through. At Heathrow, for example, this doesn’t work, because their systems lock up 45 minutes before departure and there is no way staff can work around that – apparently.

Now for GA flying, I need much more time. I also use different aircraft a lot and the procedures vary. Everything takes more time.

But I can see how one who flies trips with their own plane, where everything is setup before the flight as much as possible, headsets installed, walk-around brief because it was oneself who flew last, airport staff moved the plane out of the hangar, checklists done quickly because you do it every week or multiple times… I can see how people other than me could be much quicker here!

I have a real good parking spot at ZRH, about 3-4 minutes walking time to the GAC or Terminal 1. As I do all the preparation before going to the airport, I usually just say hi at the counter and check they have my flight plan and update them on the nr of pax and nature of flight. I am usually through security and on the tarmac within 5 mins of reaching the GAC. The walk to the plane takes another 3-4 minutes depending where it’s parked.

Pre-flighting the airplane including fuelling takes about 15 minutes, as the fuel truck comes to the airplane. I do know the fuel quantity on board in advance as we write it down in the reservation system so i can order fuel before I reach the airplane. That is if I am alone. If I have pax to attend, it can take a bit longer. So generally, we are usually off blocks within 30 mins after reaching the airport, sometimes 45. That is if nothing goes wrong at all. Taxi time is usually between 5 and 10 minutes, so time to airborne is between 45 mins and 1 hr.

If I fly airline from ZRH in economy class, then i am definitly at the airport 90 mins before departure, in C class maybe 60 mins. Walk to the terminal 1 is from the same parking spot about 3-4 mins depending on how many people are there, to Terminal 2 about 10 minutes. Waiting times at the bag drop off in Eco can be up to 30 minutes, i’ve experienced worse. In C it is usually below 5 minutes. Walk through security to the gate takes in between 20 to 30 mins (I am not very fast with family and baby) and boarding time is usually STD-30 mins.

On arrival, it normally takes about 20 mins to close up the airplane and proceed to the C office or GAC whatever. Then again walk to the parkhouse. All in all half an hour. Arriving with the airline takes up to 40 mins to get to the bag claim and out of the terminal, then depending on the arrival 4-10 mins to the car.

As for enroute, you have to calculate stops enroute too. Clearly this applies for both GA and CAT.

At my usual route to Salzburg, with the Mooney I will use 1-25 flight time, 35-45 mins at ZRH and 15 mins at SZG. That is 2:15 – 2:20. The fastest airline trip time is 2-45 plus 60 mins at ZRH and 20 mins at SZG so around 4 hours. But that one is at 3pm. Mid morning they take up to 4 hours trip time only.

The other example I gave was ZRH-Neuchatel. This was 35 mins flight time plus let’s say 1 hr overhead as the event i was going to was at the airport. So 1-35 in total. On the way back, door to door was 1-20. The fastest train connection to Neuchatel Airport including trains and busses was 2-45, which is actually fast. I left the house at 10-50 and was back at 17-20. Had I done it per Train, I would have had to leave the house at 08-45 and would have been home at 19-00.