alioth wrote:
It’s necessary at grass airfields which can become waterlogged or airfields with movement limitations,
Come over to visit the mass graves of pilots that died on waterlogged grass strips here in Germany.
Right.
So, a party to nationalise the airports to make them better for private pilots? LibDems? Change UK? Greens? UKIP? Brexit Party?
I haven’t seen it on any of their manifesti.
Timothy wrote:
Or do we say that that the airfield infrastructure is a national asset, like airspace, and should be owned and operated by the State (as it is in many/most countries)?
Yes on the fact that they are infrastructure and as thus should be open to the public without undue difficulties and harassment.
Not necessarily as owned and operated by the state but as a pre-condition to get the permission to operate it as a company or privately. Possibly with some compensation in terms of tax break or even some money provided for support but with the clear duty to keep it open and available.
What would also make a difference there is if one can land and depart without airport personel in attendance like in many places already. Works quite well on many places here.
PPR should have to be justified in every case and if necessary made as easy as possible. And I don’t see too many reasons for a real requirement for PPR.
alioth wrote:
If it’s to coordinate ATC then they can at least accept a flight plan in lieu.
Indeed! And for coordination they wouldn’t even need PPR, PN would be enough.
An airport near me has the same situation — due to staff shortage in the tower they want prior notice of all flights, to be given by telephone or flight plan.
I turned up at Oxford a couple of years ago unannounced and they asked ‘do I have a PPR’ to which I replied NO
Anyway after a bit if discussion they let me land anyway.
On departure waiting at the hold for a Seneca to land I could see that they had forgot to lower the gear, so at the last minute I shouted on the radio ’ Seneca NO GEAR GO AROUND’ which he did from about 2m agl.
If they had turned me away that day they would have been left considerably poorer and not just the few £’s landing fee.
a_kraut wrote:
Come over to visit the mass graves of pilots that died on waterlogged grass strips here in Germany.
It’s not about pilots dying, but in the UK there are some very soft soils and landing on a waterlogged grass strip will likely damage the runway and get the plane stuck (or on its back) unless you’ve got tundra tyres. It seems like a good idea to ask what the condition is before comitting.
But hard surfaced runways? It seems silly to require PPR. It’s like if you had to phone ahead to Tescos or a petrol station when you want to go shopping or fill up with fuel to book first. It’s pointless. The entire US (including privately owned airfields, like the one I was based at for several years, all the way to places like Van Nuys which is far busier than any UK GA field) doesn’t need it, so why do we?
This is strange. I think Gloucester has been PPR for years. I use them several times a month and have always called. Having said that I am almost certain that if you forgot they are not going to refuse landing.
It can get a bit manic there some weekends. Often with 4 or 5 aircraft in the circuit, a heli or 3 in the heli circuit and planes on the procedural IAP as well. The tower there work really hard and I dont mind having to call ahead if it helps with their planning.
Buckerfan wrote:
It can get a bit manic there some weekends. Often with 4 or 5 aircraft in the circuit, a heli or 3 in the heli circuit and planes on the procedural IAP as well. The tower there work really hard and I dont mind having to call ahead if it helps with their planning.
Not sure calling ahead actually helps their tactical planning.
PPR is a horrible feature at UK’s aerodromes (that are open to the public to use).
Only made possible because:
- Many pilots are happy to agree to phone in and get a briefing to book in and book out.
- Many pilots are too lazy to read ATIS, METARs, TAFs, NOTAMs, and aerodrome procedures and charts
- Many pilots have poor RT discipline
- Many aerodrome operators do not publish clear visual approach charts and procedures
- ATC is not fully staffed to manage sudden increases in (radio) workload
- ATC electronic strips cannot cope with taking popup flight details quick enough (bad UX design)
- ATC has issues placing too many pilots into a holding stack
- Those at the end of the phone are happy to regurgitate the same information to pilots, over and over again.
- Those at the end of the phone want your details so they can catch you if you misbehave (airspace incursion, runway incursion, noise incursion).
- Or simply refuse to pick up when they’ve felt they’ve had enough customers for the day.
That’s my take on it.
I had actually been to Gloucester just before this thread. When paying the landing fee they said the man in the tower wasn’t very happy because we hadn’t got PPR. It turned out they’d mixed us up with someone else, but it didn’t seem a major problem for them.
PPR is just silly. Like airport funding, it’s a cultural thing that will probably never change.
Is there any way to find out which Members of Parliament are pilots? I remember Lembit Öpik was. With GA, airlines, military plus their families, it should represent a reasonable percentage of the population. Farmers have always had disproportionate weight in French politics, but aviation is too disparate and fractured to be concerted.
