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IFR from EDLN to EGPD Aberdeen

EuroFlyer wrote:

these blue-red parts I don’t quite get

They are UK Standard Routes.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Check the cost of landing/handling fees at Aberdeen. I believe there are no longer any discounts so you are looking at £200 or so. Alternatively consider landing at Dundee and driving the last bit. They do have instrument approaches if required. Fuel in Scotland is pricey so an intermediate stop may well be worthwhile. If price if important, Sherburn is usually one of the cheapest. Otherwise somewhere like Gamston or Sywell/Northampton are possibilities amongst others. If you want/need IFR approach (less likely in June), then you might consider Durham Tees Valley or Humberside. Since you are arriving from abroad, landing first at a General Agreement airfield would be preferable but not mandatory – see the GAR guidance notes.

I’ve only flown into Aberdeen once. It was windy!

This is my trip from Aberdeen to Sywell, mostly outside airways/CAS, late afternoon one sunny day, including a condensed video.

EGBJ, United Kingdom

But just to confirm, I need it directly into my brain: With an EASA IR I can fly IFR with a D-reg plane through clouds over the UK, without telling anyone ? Meaning, I define myself as being IFR ?
If I understand your explanation on your website correctly, flying north after Dover I will be OCAS, can fly IFR – through clouds – but when crossing airspaces, control zones and the like, I’ll have to get clearances similar to what we do on the continent when flying VFR. Right ?
Means I can forget the whole autorouter planning and just file sth with the AIS, and then after entering UK airspace I continue OCAS in i.e. 7-8000 ft.. right ?

Not quite

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I will try to give a useful reply.

With an EASA IR I can fly IFR with a D-reg plane through clouds over the UK, without telling anyone ? Meaning, I define myself as being IFR ?

Essentially, yes.

If I understand your explanation on your website correctly, flying north after Dover I will be OCAS, can fly IFR – through clouds – but when crossing airspaces, control zones and the like, I’ll have to get clearances similar to what we do on the continent when flying VFR. Right ?

Yes. The point is that there are no lower airways along the east coast of Britain. Hence you can‘t fly „controlled IFR“ on that track. You can still fly IFR, but essentially as an uncontrolled flight (like VFR flights work in class E or G).

However, you will only be completely uncontrolled if you remain in class G all the way. There are still CTA and CTRs (Southend for example) in the way for which – if they are class D, you must obtain a clearance. And you still need to avoid class A airspace, since you won‘t get a clearance for that if your filed IFR flight plan did not indicate that you would want to access it. Plus you have to consider EG-Ds, EG-Rs and so on.

Means I can forget the whole autorouter planning and just file sth with the AIS, and then after entering UK airspace I continue OCAS in i.e. 7-8000 ft.. right ?

Again, at 7-8000 feet, you will likely not remain fully OCAS on that track. Look at the chart and work out a route that is fully OCAS if you want to avoid getting any further clearances.

For the rest, the flightplanning side of this is little more complicated, but I can‘t go into all the details at this moment.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 22 May 16:53
Frankfurt (EDFZ, EDFE), Germany

boscomantico wrote:

However, you will only be completely uncontrolled if you remain in class G all the way. There are still CTA and CTRs (Southend for example) in the way for which – if they are class D, you must obtain a clearance. And you still need to avoid class A airspace, since you won‘t get a clearance for that if your filed IFR flight plan did not indicate that you would want to access it. Plus you have to consider EG-Ds, EG-Rs and so on.

For that reason I would file the entire route as IFR even if IFR OCAS (instead of filing the OCAS portion as VFR) so that the relevant ATSUs that need to clear class A transit have the FPL and are able to give the requisite clearance.

EGTF, EGLK, United Kingdom

I would therefore go for something like

MODRU8N MODRU Z283 NAVAK Y868 SOGRI DCT GILOM L607 KOK DCT VABIK DCT MOKBU DCT NONVA DCT INLIM DCT MIPVO DCT DOLAS DCT USEKA DCT NEW DCT SAB DCT NAXIL

which passes IFPS validation for me. I had to change the routing slightly as the routing with VFR segment went through danger areas which failed the IFPS validation.

That should help you getting clearance through the Newcastle airspace more easily. You also need to expect to get a tactical reroute by London TC, probably via routing DVR-CLN

Last Edited by wbardorf at 22 May 17:57
EGTF, EGLK, United Kingdom

Depending where you would like a fuel stop. Church Fenton (now called leeds east) could be a good stop for you. Reasonably priced self serve fuel, free landing with a certain fuel uplift. I was in there a month or so ago and it worked well. Normally I go to Breighton, but I prefer grass to tarmac.

Wickenby could also be an option with self serve fuel.

Sherburn, EGCJ, also has self service fuel. Competitive prices. And food.

EGCJ, United Kingdom

For that reason I would file the entire route as IFR even if IFR OCAS (instead of filing the OCAS portion as VFR) so that the relevant ATSUs that need to clear class A transit have the FPL and are able to give the requisite clearance.

I don’t think that works in the UK.

London Control will bin (discard) a flight plan which is significantly OCAS – even if it was properly in CAS for a few hundred miles on the way to the UK. They will hand you over to London Info 124.60 when you leave Class A, and you won’t get any more Class A clearances after that. Sometimes one can but it is unusual – you can read this.

So filing an IFR FP up the UK east coast is no different to filing a VFR FP up there. No enroute units will see the FP in either case. But filing IFR subjects the FP to IFPS checking and while it may pick up some useful stuff (unlikely, since most countries don’t supply IFPS with the full current list of D P R etc bits, usually deliberately) you are likely to get spurious objections like “airway XXyy not valid below FL150” when actually you are just flying its track but lower down in Class G… etc.

If on this “VFR” route you encounter IMC then you just carry on, if you have an IR and an appropriate aircraft. No need to say anything. In the UK you can do IFR in Class G, non radio and non-TXP. There is almost no non-TXP traffic in IMC, thankfully. Feel free to tell ATC you are IFR, but it isn’t likely to make any difference. Legend has it that traffic declaring itself as “IFR” gets a better service because you sound like you know what you are doing (most UK GA is doesn’t) but ATC will always deny that. However being better on the radio definitely does work (but is equally described as untrue)

London Control are really good professional ATCOs but their company policy is to get rid of OCAS traffic really fast. In Scotland it works much better… no idea why the political structure should be so different. Obviously there is almost no GA traffic up there…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

but their company policy is to get rid of OCAS traffic really fast

I think only below FL70 or thereabouts. Due to technical limitations with radio or radar coverage, as I understand.

Last Edited by James_Chan at 23 May 14:27
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