Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Factors of success for long VFR trips.

Once you are comfortabel with VFR on top it’s the best way to fly for most longer flights in my opinion. Better visibility, less traffic, more sun, a lot of time in case of engine failure.

Until you have to make a blind approach and find somewhere to put it down (if and) when you pop out of the cloud.

Egnm, United Kingdom

Even when I was VFR only I practiced making engine out descents through the clouds. Since I was only flying on-top when there was a high enough celing below the clouds this was (and is) really uncritical.

The best and safest way for a VFR only pilot is to let go the yoke/stick, trim the acft to (let’s say 80 kts in my old Warrior) and use only the rudder in the descent. All you need to do is concentrate on the DG and if you stay on course you can never lose control of the airplane. I did it about a hundred times and I show it all pilots with less experience than me when I do the biannual PPL checkrides.

Of course it will not help you much if there’s a mountain in the clouds (Cumulus Granitus) … But I would not recommend VFR on top if there’s no space below the clouds. That’s where it starts to become really dangerous.

Until you have to make a blind approach and find somewhere to put it down (if and) when you pop out of the cloud.

Yes, but that is flying with a death wish. Sure, some people do that. I have continual difficulty in understanding why…

If you are going to fly VMC on top you need to have basic instrument capability so if everything goes bad you can go down somebody’s ILS.

Or you need a rock solid CAVOK/FEWxxx forecast.

It’s one of flying’s paradoxes

Like night VFR

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Yes, I agree. But I do not think you need to be able to fly an ILS.
I would say the minimum qualification/criteria to safely on top:

- be able to descned through the clouds (best with method above)
- Always VMC conditions below clouds. Never fly above an overvast that goes down to the ground!
- VMC at destination, minimum should be scattered conditions, because those will be “broken” anyway
- a good GPS and a permanent update of the position and knowing how to find the nearest airport (GNS430: turn large right know three times)

With age have compartmentalized my flying, it is either no gyros, no GPS VFR, or airways IFR with the route loaded onto an IFR GPS flight plan.

The Super Cub has a reasonable dispatch ratio as its comfortable cruising range is only around 200nm – it has the performance to fly 500nm plus with reserves, but personal comfort limits it to 200nm sectors. My VFR limits are 5-6 miles visibility and 2000’ ceilings, and if you are only going 200nm it isn’t difficult to pick a good weather day. Visibility below 3-4 miles and I am planning a diversion or precautionary landing.

The SC is likely to go to Barcelona and some of the legs will be closer to 300nm. In theory it could go EGMD-LELL non stop but a comfort stop at Limoges will be planned.

One day, if the winds and weather are favorable, might attempt EGSL- LSGL non stop and get it recorded by the FAI – long range economical cruise being at around 65 KIAS this would be in the ‘eccentric’ record category.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

I reckon it depends on how you define Marginal conditions. I took the GAFOR definition which means Ceiling between 1000 ft and 1500 ft above reference altitude and /or visibility larger than 2 km and below 5 km.

If I know the area really well, then flying in conditions like that may work. 2km visibility in a 150 kt plane is below my personal comfort zone, whereas I agree that a ceiling of 1200 ft and 10km vis is flyable most of the time. I personally think the VFR minima for all but Class G airspace are quite a good limit for most pilots. 5 km visibility and 1500 ft ceiling over the highest obstacle on your route are pretty adequate even if you are not too familiar with the area.

I will fly VFR with a ceiling of 800 ft is the visibility is 10 km … and I will fly with a visibility of 3 km if the ceiling is 5000 ft. I will not fly if the vis is 1.5 km and the ceiling 800 ft.

800 ft AGL is below the Marginal criteria, in the forecast that area would be classified closed (X). It also does not allow the 1000 ft minimum to overfly built up areas. Yes it can be done in Class G and outside built up areas (difficult in most places) but it leaves a very small margin of error and practically no time in case of a power loss.

Flying on top or single engine IFR are a lot safer if there is a reasonable VMC condition below the cloud layer. I would not feel comfortable flying SEP with anything less than 5km/1500 ft ceiling within gliding distance.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 17 Mar 22:16
LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Have plenty of time and/or money, and traveling alone or with someone who does not expect to be anywhere at a specific date and time.
Have an iPad so that flying around weather or to an un planned place is not done the way it is taught by flight schools (if you like that, there are precision flying contests where you can meet people like you). But we all have one.
Have a Cartabossy in France helps too.
The big issue is knowing the language: you will need to improvise so you’ll need to call airfields to know is they can sell fuel, or if they will be open when you arrive ( obviously if there is a runway, you can land, but the exit gate must not be locked if you don’t want to sleep in your plane).

Paris, France

I flew coast to coast in the US in a strictly VFR only Cessna 140, this was a proper long VFR cross country (I had a GPS but I only used it when near restricted areas or controlled airspace, part of the goal was to just enjoy navigation by looking out of the window). The enroute portion was planned like this: where is the weather OK? Go in that direction. Of course leaving Texas and into the desert VMC wasn’t hard to find, but once hitting California, there was IFR conditions due to smog. There was much more flying in MVFR on the east coast part of the trip.

Onto MVFR conditions: the Cessna 140 is docile and slow. I flew dozens of night VFR hours in that plane in rural Texas with zero ground reference just on needle, ball and airspeed because the C140 just isn’t hard to fly like that. Same thing with the Auster (except we have the full set of gyros – they were made during the war but they still work fine). Again, the Auster has easy handling and doesn’t go very fast. It is a completely different proposition, however, to fly in MVFR conditions in a Cessna 310 or Bonanza. The Auster is quite happy flying all day at 70mph if you want, which helps if the visibility isn’t great. I wouldn’t want to do that in a Bonanza. Also – while I hope I never screw up with the weather this badly – if the weather turns bad around me and boxes me in, I’m pretty confident I could land the Auster in most cow pastures or sheep paddocks in the UK and be able to get it out again. Not so much with something like a Bonanza, or even a Cherokee.

I do use the Auster to fly from A to B, but whenever I do it’s not “On March 30th, I will fly to Gloucester, stay 2 days and come home”, it’s “The weather looks good today, I’ll fly to Gloucester for the weekend”.

Andreas IOM

Another 3 day trip cancelled due to 2 days unflyable weather this weekend… at the homebase mind, so no “flexibility” will help. Typical case of watching wonderful VFR weather through the office window and when I have time it will rain, snow and totally close off. Even non-FIKI IFR would be unlikely this Sunday over the Black Forest and ZRH.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland
29 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top