True cost of flying IFR in France (or EU) (annual revalidation, equipment check)

Points 1 and 2 correct.

Point 3 I don’t know about re EASA equipment test requirements. In FAA world there is just the 2-yearly transponder and altimeter test.

On the whole his comments don’t make sense. However there will be edge cases ( (C) Steve Jobs ) where you are getting ripped off. For example if you can’t find a freelance FE then you have to go via an FTO and they are likely to fleece you with “training as required”. Also while an avionics test is basically going around with an IFR4000 or some such, nothing prevents the company from fleecing you on that also.

By far the biggest cost of an IR is your time spent doing it, and that hasn’t changed much in the 22 years I’ve been flying.

Are there many people flying non-commercial IFR on single or twin pistons ?

The private IR community in Europe is small, due to the historically poor accessibility of the IR, and this will remain so, because political factors in Europe work to keep the IR hard to get. The UK numbers for example (some threads here on decline of GA, etc) are of the order of a few dozen new IRs a year, and the UK is one of the two biggest GA “touring” communities (Germany is the other). So the private IR community is maybe 1-2% of the VFR PPL community in terms of new pilots annually. But this is not the same thing as how many remain; with an IR you have a vastly bigger incentive to hang on, whereas ~90% of new PPLs chuck it in almost immediately. Someone will point out that 99% remain in their country. So if you hang around your airfield in say UK or Germany, you may find 10% of the “regular furniture” have an IR. Nearly all of them will be owners.

FIKI is a US term, mapping onto US wx services, with no legal meaning in Europe as regards whether a particular departure is legal. The ice protection equipment does make a plane more expensive to buy and to run. But I flew 2002-2018 IFR with no ice protection, so this is a separate debate.

Private pilots tend to use the IR to get access to CAS (controlled airspace) which while legal for VFR (below Class A) is often prohibited due to unpublished “private” ATC policies. Basically under VFR, ATC works against you, while under IFR they work for you France e.g. has a VFR ban above FL115 in the NE quarter, roughly. Few people fly in actual IMC enroute. See e.g. here.

France is perhaps different from the rest of Europe in that nearly all GA there (and there is a lot, with about 2x more pilots than say the UK) is a low-level short-hops weekend aeroclub scene, so little or no need for an IR, and thus most will regard an IR as pointless, especially as most of the small number of privately owned planes are types like Robins which have little or no IFR capability (legally or not). I have this from many pilots there, although if this is posted by a non French person, trouble usually follows

France also has a different “IR history” in that they had a national IR for many years which enabled one to have an IR usable in France only, with no ELP requirement (which was important). This was obviously a good option for those who never fly outside France but it could explain why someone in France might think the IR is of little use. And France has good joined-up ATC which makes VFR flying easier than just about anywhere in Europe (in good wx).

I’m not in France, but I fly IFR in France regularly. The requirements are all EASA, so it shouldn’t matter which EASA country you’re in.

Additional costs for IFR flying are:

- ATS charges, which are generally nominal in relation to the other flight costs
- Keeping databases up to date for a few hundred euros per year
- A ForeFlight subscription (SkyDemon just doesn’t do it for IFR) for 120 per year
- Yearly revalidation, which for me amounts to approx. 1 hr flight with a freelance examiner

This adds up to about an additional 1k or so per year.

Of course you also need an aircraft equipped with at least (in addition to basic VFR instrumentation):

- One 8,33 radio (and at least a backup for 121,5 if needed)
- An IFR GPS (WAAS is best) and CDI with lat/vert indication
- An FM immune NAV radio with GS receiver
- A DME if you plan to fly any ILS approaches

And you need to keep said aircraft in good working order.

ATS charges are only over 2000kg, and any plane has to be kept in a good working order

And the comment re: SD vs ForeFlight is debatable as well – I know of quite a few pilots that use SD and not FF.

I think it would be best to split the costs between the Aircraft cost & Pilot cost – that would fit more scenarios, because if put all in one basket, it would only work for a pilot-owner (the only owner of the aircraft).
Aircraft cost – 500EUR+ for the DB updates and some extra items for the annual
Pilot costs – 50EUR+SW (if any)+a/c hourly cost for the annual reval. Maybe an audiogram costs as well for the Class 2 medical?

Peter wrote:

Point 3 I don’t know about re EASA equipment test requirements. In FAA world there is just the 2-yearly transponder and altimeter test.

EASA (in part-ML) additionally requires an ASI test. The requirements are: Operational check of the transponder and functional check of the pitot-static system. There is no difference between VFR and IFR in this respect. In particular there is no requirement to check radios.

(Operational check means that you check that “it works”. Functional check means that you test against specs.)

Where do you fly? does the instructor hold an IR or IRI? and does he own and operate IFR aircraft (F-reg, EASA or FAA)?

So my question is: is it actually that bad ? (again, apart from the additional cost of flying IFR in itself) Are there any specific regulations in France that would add a lot of cost / administrative hurldes ?

The initial cost to get IR rating or getting IFR machine is expensive

Running costs are cheap, less than 1k/year from subscriptions for databases, ipads and pitot-static test every 2 years (I do mine in Belgium)

Keeping IFR currency is cheap: 1/ low initial IR fee to DGAC examiners, revalidations with freelance IRE is usually less than 1h of flight in your aircraft or sim, 2/ you can practice approches for free, 3/ if you need DGAC papers (licence or airworthiness) the fees are dirt cheap but service is slow

There are few IR owners who fly F-reg (or N-reg) from LFPT, it’s a nice airport with good setup for IFR

I am sure it’s worth getting in touch, most will offer a free ride and chat