I flew GA into Boston Logan the other day. Simple as everything in the US — file flight plan (on the ground or in the air) and just fly there. Don’t ask for permission, don’t announce yourself, etc. Vectoring and landing all without delay and integrated into the traffic flow with the usual big airport stuff (keep 160 until 2 miles final).
Now at the airport one has to go to an FBO. Boston has exactly one called Signature (you guess where this is heading). As Signature has a certain reputation, even in the US, an email was sent before the flight asking for a complete list of fees. Response came promptly and the fees were around $200 when purchasing at least 15 USG of fuel. Reasonable for a tier 1 airport. The plan was to just drop off one person (me) and depart after getting those 15 USG of fuel. So maybe 15 minutes.
In the end it felt very European to me. It took ages for them to produce a bill and to even notify the fuel truck. After about 45 minutes there was finally fuel and the aircraft could leave. Another 30 minutes later after asking again and again, a bill was produced, full page and about twice of what was quoted. They made a mistake in their quote it turned out but that should not be held against me which it wasn’t anymore after some time. However, a lot of those familiar extra things showing infinite creativity popped up on the quote. Yes, this is from the airport, we can’t do anything, no this is from the state, no this is security, not our fee, yes, this fee was just increased last week after we sent the quote and it’s not our fee, etc.
In the end, one of their staff told me how sorry they are for this business attitude and that it’s a constant problem and they know pilots despise the company and the real problem is that they have exclusivity at the airport. Quite funny because this was an almost 100% match to what you get at bigger airports in Europe.
Boston Logan is really an exception among US fields, you know that !
When one admires US GA, one doesn’t think of Boston.
I would be very happy to have such a service in Paris Orly or CDG !
Big differences with Europe :
*ATC takes you with no PPR, no slot, nothing. A French PPL did a touch and go at Atlanta Intl in a C172, VFR in the middle of the afternoon, no problem. I guess Mooney Driver for example would be happy for such a service.
*The staff is sorry for you ! Not what we are used to here. Here they think GA=bizjet & pistons=crap, simple as that.
That said :
For sure the KBOS manager wants to limit GA in a certain way, and it is not unreasonable. But you are still free to get there (though not for free).
Everybody flying in the US knows that a Signature monopoly is really not a good choice. There are exceptions though ( the guys at Syracuse NY were amazing when I was there in 2016, maumybe because they were Landmark before).
We all spent to much time saying that lack of access to the main european metropolis was signifiant in termes of GA utility. Boston has no other airports downtown IIRC (like in Europe) and that’s why they still get a lot of GA traffic despite their outrageous charges. Which to me, shows that people would be ready to pay quite a lot to be able to fly to Munchen, Brussels, Frankfort or Orly. I am sure they could make some money with it. But that would scare airlines and neighbour groups.
Jujupilote wrote:
people would be ready to pay quite a lot to be able to fly to Munchen, Brussels, Frankfort or Orly.
Brussels Zaventem EBBR seems to be possible (I didn’t say easy); the budget is about 500,- EUR, “only” 200-250 of which is actually for handling proper. Slots are required, but seem to not be impossible to obtain. This being said, if your operation can do EBGB (Day VFR, Grass, no LAPL allowed, …), it is at a roughly equivalent distance from Brussels Centre.
And for Munich all you allegedly need is to be over two tons… But Achim would know better.
Hm, @lionel, make that
Day VFR, grass, no LAPL allowed, shortish runway, very strict procedures, no customs nor immigration, limited public transport.
Not casting any slurs at the EBGB operator, at they contrary: they are doing a great job under difficult conditions, but for someone wishing to fly into EBBR the difference might be all too big. Better suggest EBAW or EBCI, then, or even EBKT. OTOH I heard rumours LAPL operation is no longer totally excluded at EBGB. Perhaps, like many small fields round here, they feel the pressure downwards: they always were a PPL-only field but PPL is on the decrease, very generally speaking. I do hope for the day they allow my ultralight, too!
Yes Munich I think over two tons and perhaps twin (I can’t remember). But I assume they allow PC12s so I could be wrong.
Handling is not mandatory. You just call German call and get a slot.
I can confirm Achim is not over two tons even with his aircraft.
On Logan, It is probably the worst airport to arrive at GA in the US. I have been there once but always go to BED instead. I think JFK is simpler and cheaper.
This fall I have done Las Vegas McCarran with Atlantic as handler, IIRC it was 40 $ all in with a minimum uplift of 15 USG of fuel. I figured that would be cheaper than the Uber from and to Henderson or North Las Vegas (both of which we had been to before). They even dropped us off at our hotel and picked us up again the next day. But that proves that you need competition, because Signature would have been an alternative to Atlantic, only slightly more expensive.
Also did Atlantic at Salt Lake City (the big airport), which was similar in price. I had also researched how much it would have cost to be picked up from LAX in an SEP; it’s 137$ total at Atlantic and 115$ total at Signature. In the end we took a rental car, but I think that is really a great price for an airport of that size. Yes, the “ramp fees” are pretty much the same deal as “mandatory handling” in Europe. But as soon as there is more than one option, prices seem to come down magically.
Which would make it so easy to construct an anti competition lawsuit if you wanted, because you’d just need to make the list of Signature locations, their prices and the number of competitors in each one to prove how they extort their monopolistic position. In Europe, there often seems to be a tacit or even open cartel between different handlers at the same airport, if you even have a choice.
JasonC wrote:
On Logan, It is probably the worst airport to arrive at GA in the US. I have been there once but always go to BED instead. I think JFK is simpler and cheaper.
I can’t imagine why anything smaller than a biz jet would land at places like Logan or McCarran, or pay fees for doing so. For example near McCarran there are two better choices nearby – North Las Vegas and Henderson. (my choice would be Henderson, easy in easy out)
Jan_Olieslagers wrote:
Hm, @lionel, make that Day VFR, grass, no LAPL allowed, shortish runway, very strict procedures, no customs nor immigration, limited public transport.
Yes. There was a “…” in my sentence for all the rest :) Obviously, it will be utterly unattractive / impossible for the “upper” market segment, but for people flying a 2-4-6 seater touring Europe and wanting a stop in Brussels… I was just saying that Brussels is still less GA-inaccessible than e.g. London (which AFAIK has nothing closer than 1h ground time).
Grimbergen does require a taxi.
On the other extreme of the scale, you are right the “strict procedures” can scare low-time pilots and/or “paper chart, compass and stopwatch” operations. But then, the whole of Belgium does :) Probably I don’t worry about them because I’m “familiar” because I went there in DC during my PPL training, I’ve read the Belgocontrol security bulletin so I know not to fly direct AFI to LONDI (but with a good VFR moving map app, you’ll see that even if not warned) and I watch the GPS moving map to avoid busting the EBBR CTR.
Even when (as a student) I forgot about it the day before, PPR is obtained from the departure hangar before taking plane out. The unusual part of the noise abatement procedure is “slow flight after LONDI”, and slow flight… is taught at the PPL level :) Don’t overfly blah and blih and bloh, turn right/left ASAP after t/o, etc many airfields have that, and again a moving map geo-referenced GPS approach plate does wonders.
Jan_Olieslagers wrote:
Better suggest EBAW or EBCI, then, or even EBKT.
All 1h or more ground time to Brussels Centre. Maybe it is me, but I’m quite sensitive to that. I choose my “GA touring” destinations with this criterium. If I land at EBAW, well, I spend time at Antwerpen. I did an exception for London…. Once.
