So I messed up this approach last time I was there. I flew it with a northerly wind – that was not helping, but I found out what I got wrong.
I timed the outbound leg to 1 min and then started the turn towards the inbound track. I now see that with 100 kts I need to extend the outbound leg quite a lot to be able to get established inbound before decending.
Can I choose to extend or do I need to ask for permission to do that?
AIP EKYT_VOR
Would like to see the Jepp plate but have no access to that.
Jepp show it more clearly, you have to execute the hold to get to the 2.9 DME FAF. Obviously lots of ways you can do it. I stand by the GPS method I described in the other thread. With a hold like this which is distance defined, why fly it on time?
This is a very strange procedure. I doesn’t have an IAF, only a FAF. Note that the hold is not part of the procedure – it is the missed approach hold. If it was part of the procedure it would have been charted with a solid line in the AIP and a thick line in the Jepp plate. The Jepp plate (below) is IMHO incorrect in charting the approach as beginning at the FAF. The AIP plate shows an extended centreline outside the FAF.
Strictly speaking, this procedure can’t be flown full procedure but only with radar vectors. In practise, self-positioning on the extended centreline outside the FAF would work.
You didn’t say where you started the procedure or what your clearance was?
I did execute the hold but turned inbound to soon and then the 2.9DME had already passed when established inbound.
How can I see if the hold is timed or defined by distance?
Tried a search for your GPS method but could not find the thread.
Here it is:
https://www.euroga.org/forums/student-pilots/6641-garmin-430-holding-patterns/post/120349#120349
It is defined by distance in my view as you have to be established inbound at a specific point (the 2.9 DME FAF) before the aid at which you are holding.
@Airborne_Again interesting point. I just looked at the Jepp plate. AIP is different.
Note that the hold is not part of the procedure – it is the missed approach hold.
Well it is not a mandatory part of the procedure but is not just a missed approach hold. Absent vectors to final (or self positioning), the only procedural way to execute the approach is via the hold at AAL.
Clearance was to AAL – we ended up being vectored there – then to take up the hold. It was a training flight. Did a parallel entry.
If the hold are only for missed approach why is MHA2000 (3000 for missed approach) then noted?
Thank you Jason.
pmh wrote:
I did execute the hold but turned inbound to soon and then the 2.9DME had already passed when established inbound.I wouldn’t say you turned inbound too soon. You simply can’t enter the procedure from the charted hold.
How can I see if the hold is timed or defined by distance?
If there is no DME distance or other fix at the end of the outbound leg, then it is timed. If no time is given, then it is one minute (below 14000 ft).
JasonC wrote:
Well it is not a mandatory part of the procedure but is not just a missed approach hold.Why do you think that?
Absent vectors to final (or self positioning), the only procedural way to execute the approach is via the hold at AAL.I disagree. In still wind conditions, you would need a TAS of 180 knots to fly the hold as charted and then you would arrive exactly at the FAF.
What would really be needed here is a racetrack procedure with 2 1/2 minute (or thereabout) legs for approach category A aircraft.
pmh wrote:
Clearance was to AAL – we ended up being vectored there – then to take up the hold. It was a training flight.What was your approach clearance? Just “cleared for the approach”?
Did a parallel entry.
Starting the approach directly from a parallel entry is often difficult because you risk intercepting the inbound track too close to the holding/racetrack fix. If that happens you should do another circuit in the hold before starting the approach from that. Not that it would help in this case.
If the hold are only for missed approach why is MHA2000 (3000 for missed approach) then noted?
The hold is not just for missed approach, but it is not part of the procedure. (Except as a missed approach hold.)
