So the thing I’d like to know is how best to assemble a syndicate from nothing (rather than join an existing one). How would one choose the partners?
Today with everything done over the internet it shouldn’t be such a big problem to get the right people together. What I think is really important is to have clear guidelines before looking for partners so that everyone knows what he will be joining. The other way round “let’s first get a few people together and then decide what we will do” is doomed right from the start.
Fully agree with What Next. When I joined the each syndicate I was asked along to speak to the other other group members and they told me about the group and also asked about me. We had an open and frank discussion about the rules and it was all laid out from the beginning. They told me the history of the group and also how the finances worked plus any additional charges that were coming up. In the case of my last syndicate they told me before I joined that a respray was coming up, and that they would need a contribution and considered two ways of funding. One where members paid upfront and the agreed share value increased, and another, for members who could not afford that, an increase in their fixed monthly for a certain period of time followed by an increase in their share price and a reduction in the monthly back to the same level as the other members. They had discussed this openly and agreed. There were notes from the meetings taken and these were all laid open to me. So I went into a fantastic 12 person strong C152 group from Popham with my eyes open and a very enjoyable flying time. I miss that syndicate and if I ever move back to Southern Blighty I will call them immediately to see if there is a share for sale.
For me, if I was starting a syndicate now, I would not sell shares in my own aircraft. (Although i need to buy one first 
) Because I think mentally you would never let go of her and she will always be your baby with some “new annoying people” who fly her and want to change her or not care for her in the same way you do… Instead I would advertise for like minded pilots, meet a few times to chat about flying and see if you are actually like minded and then buy something together as a group; or join an established syndicate, after a similar process to one I described above.
I disagree that syndicate members are by definition operating on the limit of their finances. One of our group members was previously a sole owner, and he’s absolutely overjoyed at the size of his bills these days :)
The point of a syndicate is to make affordable what you couldn’t manage alone. Sure, there is the danger of a group member being stretched, but careful selection of members and a group agreement about how to handle non-payment should handle this. In our group, if a member didn’t meet his obligations then he would be suspended from flying, and eventually his share would be sold by the other members. It hasn’t yet happened, nor even threatened to happen – and we’ve just been through the most expensive single cost in aircraft ownership (the engine overhaul).
I agree with italianjon that going from single owner to selling shares would probably mean that the original owner would psychologically be more equal than the others, which is not a good place to be for either side of that equation.
When I was looking for a new syndicate a few years ago, my first priority was the people, and the second priority was the aircraft. If the people are right then the group will work. As it happened, a group of us formed a syndicate and bought a TB20 – my first choice, but that was as much a matter of luck and availability as anything.
I’d be careful about looking on the internet for co-owners – the fact that we all knew each other beforehand was hugely useful in making the group work. It’s much easier to have difficult conversations about e.g. finance without worrying that the other guy is a blagger. If I knew someone through a forum for some time, that would probably be an adequate compensation for not knowing them IRL, but I wouldn’t choose to advertise for all comers.
I disagree that syndicate members are by definition operating on the limit of their finances.
The point of a syndicate is to make affordable what you couldn’t manage alone.
A contradiction perhaps?
Of course it does depend. If you move from a sole ownership of a TBM900 to a 1/25 share in a C152 then you are not even remotely near being financially stretched in the C152 syndicate. But a TBM900 owner is not going to move to 1/25 of a C152. He/she will probably take a careful look at his situation and move to say 1/2 of a King Air or something like that. Or, quite often, people whose finances gradually diminish tend to sell off 50% so they end up a syndicate of two.
What seems to work best in syndicates is
From Peter, with respect to new PPLs:
“So the thing I’d like to know is how best to assemble a syndicate from nothing (rather than join an existing one). How would one choose the partners?
I tried this in 2001 and totally failed.”
In response:
Unfortunately, I think that this is the hardest part. If you are a new PPL, then you may not have that many friends that are pilots. Further, you will be learning about everything for the first time, and will probably have some surprises. I once formed a new group, including one friend and two acquaintances. We based it on an existing partnership arrangement that worked well. A year later, we were surprised to find that the fuselage had some damage which was not economical to repair. It would have been ugly to deal with this on your own, but as a group we were able deal with it in a way that minimized the cost and hassle to everyone. It was a much better ending than we anticipated, and I was incredibly impressed with how the group came together.
As a result of moving to another country, I do not share an airplane with these friends anymore, but wouldn’t hesitate to again in the future. What I learned from this incident was that there are two VERY important qualities of group members:
1. That they are nice people that you like, trust, and can get along with when you need to deal with something (good or bad!).
2. They can all afford it. In my case, it turned out that there wasn’t much economic loss; however, I would have felt bad if someone had been put in a poor position!
But back to the question, how do you do this initially? Unless you already have friends that are pilots, it is difficult. In other sports, you usually buy some kit, start doing the sport and meet like minded people along the way. With airplanes this means that it may be easiest to join an established group for a couple years. Hopefully you can find about the type flying you like/want to do, and meet other pilots in a similar position. If you join an existing group, at least you won’t be without wings while you work on finding the ‘ideal’ situation. Also, by joining an existing group you won’t have to put much up front and will get to see how it all goes. I think Peter was trying to stimulate thought on other options, so I don’t think this really hits the mark he was looking for.
The internet seems to be full of strange characters on pilot websites (some of which I think should fly more and type less), so I suspect it would take some screening to find potential partners. That being said, my spouse and I met on the internet, but we didn’t have to buy an airplane to determine if we were compatible. We just went on a few dates and then a decade flew by (no pun intended)!
Back to aircraft partners. If the the requirements for partners are compatible personalities, goals, and similar financial commitment to flying, then it may just be easiest to buy a plane set up the way ‘you’ want it and then advertise for potential shareholders. This is what I would probably do if I was setting up a new group in the future (and there wasn’t an existing group which was suitable). It will be more work on your part, but you will likely get what you want. Careful screening would be required! If I did this, I might not sell the share to a new partner immediately. Perhaps it might be useful to have a short term or temporary arrangement first (hourly or dry lease). That way you get to know each other before becoming longer term partners. The only issue is that it is probably best if any partners have some skin in the game (some ownership), that way they will treat the aircraft as their own.
I am one of the new PPLs looking at joining my first syndicate now. I flew 36 hours PIC last year from gaining my PPL up to 2 January 2015 at £135 ph. This does not include the 15 hours dual which includes the end of my PPL training, converting to a PA28, a checkride (every 6 months where I fly from) which was about £160 ph.
As I may have mentioned before, I feel that I am only just starting to learn about flying, so to speak, the PPL just taught the essentials. The PA28 is nice, but for the price, availability, condition and the fact that my wife is not a keen flyer, I am curious to explore different types of flying, I guess I am trying to find “my thing”.
So I am now looking into a tailwheel permit to fly syndicate (assuming we have a mutual fit) for which the wet hourly rate is less than half what I spend on a PA28. It is slower and older but I am very interested in tailwheel aircraft and discovering “proper” use of the rudder. The syndicate has been running since the early 80’s and seems to be well organised from what I hear, with some instructors in it although there seems to be a regular turnover of members which I need to work out.
I wouldn’t say that I am operating at the limit of my finances and am effectively “dumbing down” the aircraft I would be flying rather than aiming higher, but a syndicate does seem, from my novice perspective, to be a better way to get more flying for my money and gain experience from other pilots (I have met some good people where I fly from, but most are flying school transients and there are not (m)any shares going from my current a/d).
Perhaps I may later want to go back to faster, more modern aircraft, but this seems to be a way to keep me flying and motivated during the time, according to Peter, most new PPL’s give up 
. Hope this syndicate will work without some of the negative experiences mentioned above.
[Edited as “tailwheel flying” doesn’t mean much apart from the take-off and landing, I figure that whether the wheel is at the front or the back, the principles of flight remain the same once airborne!]
I’m not sure why the issue always appears to be financial.
Sure, it’s nice to chop the bills in half, or a third, whatever. But the reason I’m in a syndicate is TIME.
There is no way I have the time to fly enough hours a year to keep the engine in healthy order, so my co-members fly it for me.
Not really… I was at a UK CAA presentation where the man said that 90% do not revalidate their PPL at the first revalidation point (t+24 months). About 10 years ago but I can’t see it has changed.
I was just kidding
That said, and I’ve mentioned this before – that’s an alarming fact !
As you’ve already suggested, if we could just bring that number down, we might have a decent chance of surviving another decade or two !
I may say it lightly, but I can see how a new PPL may give up. Whilst there are many extraneous factors which can force a decision to stop, it is also necessary to set your own objectives or one can easily just drift along and out, but each person has their own motivation. 90% is shockingly high.
But we will insure that you CKN, will be successful and be part of the 10% of that adopt GA for life !
