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A completely bizzare Eurocontrol routing

For example the MEA at BCN is FL150 (base of CAS is FL145) - OK for me (have oxygen etc) but if one actually wanted to fly lower on the day, the service from London Control may be terminated and once that happens, it is terminated permanently.

Peter,

I don't know, but maybe it is time for your to reconsider this long-standing statement of yours.

In recent years, this is just not my experience in UK. Several times, controllers politely advised me that at present altitude and course, I would shortly be leaving controlled airspace and asked if I preferred to climb or to proceed in uncontrolled airspace, but in the latter case they also asked me right away if I needed a re-join later on. Nothing wrong about that, IMHO.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

I have to say I have never been dumped by London Control either.

EGTK Oxford

the service from London Control may be terminated and once that happens, it is terminated permanently.

Not true. You may be handed to London Info if for e.g. airway/CAS outclimbed you, but they're very helpful in re-negotiating the joining clearance for you later on as per your flight plan etc.

The main reason is because the UK's airspace is weird. It permits IFR in Class G whereas most other countries use Class E and hence contiguous controlled airspace for IFR everywhere.

In recent years, this is just not my experience in UK. Several times, controllers politely advised me that at present altitude and course, I would shortly be leaving controlled airspace and asked if I preferred to climb or to proceed in uncontrolled airspace, but in the latter case they also asked me right away if I needed a re-join later on.

I have only done two flights to and within the UK so far (both this year) but that was also my experience.

RXH
EDML - Landshut, Munich / Bavaria

I have to say I have never been dumped by London Control either.

You will be hard pushed to find Class G in your FL290 turboprop hotrod, in the UK or elsewhere

You may be handed to London Info if for e.g. airway/CAS outclimbed you,

Exactly.

but they're very helpful in re-negotiating the joining clearance for you later on as per your flight plan etc.

Of course; it's their job. A couple of little issues though...

  • if you have been out of CAS for something like 30 mins, the flight plan is dumped off the London Control system and then there is virtually no way to get back into Class A

  • the "re-negotiation" can take some minutes, or even tens of minutes (they can be busy for all sorts of reasons, especially on a nice day down below) during which time you are progressing towards hazardous wx at ~ 150kt and need the climb ASAP

On a general note, ATC should tell you if you are leaving CAS, and London Control will indeed do that. (It is London Info who don't normally tell you - because they are not allowed to admit they can see you on radar - and this is what catches visitors to the UK).

But that just means I don't want to plan on leaving CAS. So I would fly at FL160.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

You will be hard pushed to find Class G in your FL290 turboprop hotrod, in the UK or elsewhere

I often flew the Mirage at lower levels in the UK Peter in and out of CAS. And I never had the problem you mention.

EGTK Oxford

But that just means I don't want to plan on leaving CAS. So I would fly at

Sounds very reasonable to me. UK low level CAS is messed up - rigid and not fuel efficient.

In my IFR flying I find the most difficult thing is to get them to understand you want to leave controlled airspace! They tend to keep us in as long as possible and add tens of miles to our route, when we would be happy to leave controlled airspace by descent direct to our destination.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

Peter,

The VFR to CPT STU KLY route seems to be 292 miles vs the route up to the north at 341 (its only 20 minutes more and you don't need to faff about getting cleared in at CPT.

On going out of CAS and then back in (within the UK), my experience (which specifically includes Weston and also Scottish airports), is that I am switched to FIR if it is going to be more than a few minutes and on my first call it is xxx Information, Nxxx with you IFR at F100 for rejoin at XXXXX in 10. They then pass some info and then get on with getting the rejoin. The only issue I have ever had was coming back from Ireland rejoining L9, where the airway control conveyed the view I hadn't had a bath when I asked to join L9 FL100 over Wales going back to Fairoaks (but I did get the clearance)

EGTF

This also seems to work and is shorter than the other one that I posted earlier:

BPK DCT HEIDI N57 SAPCO PEDIG Y53 WAL L10 PENIL L70 BABRA DCT BAGSO V14 DUB DCT WST (at FL095+).

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