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A really scary VMC into IMC video (why don't pilots get some basic instrument skills?)

The problem I see is that to fly an SRA, or any IAP, you need to be able to fly to some reasonable level in solid IMC, while navigating and doing the radio.

So if trapped in IMC, if you can do all that, you can just fly (assuming no icing conditions / embedded TS etc) to any airport with an IAP. If you can’t do all that, you will die. In between the two you have maybe someone who can just about fly in IMC and then ATC assistance could be valuable but how many of those pilots are there? I would think very few, among the aircraft types which don’t have an autopilot. And if you have an autopilot and know how to use it there is very little reason to die in IMC.

An SRA might be known in the UK but I don’t think the concept exists (formally) elsewhere. Obviously ATC will know how to vector people at/above their MRVA, but that is useless for flying an approach so to vector somebody down to say 500ft the ATCO would have his neck on the guillotine. Would ATC do it? I don’t know…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

An SRA might be known in the UK but I don’t think the concept exists (formally) elsewhere.

The concept is ICAO standard but is unusual in Europe outside the UK. Sweden had a few but they were removed many years ago.

The airbase (ESCM) 3 NM from my club airfield used to have one. We used it all the time for cloud break after IFR flights. Very easy to fly.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 22 Nov 12:50
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

but that is useless for flying an approach so to vector somebody down to say 500ft the ATCO would have his neck on the guillotine

I’d think in an emergency you’d be able to request pretty much anything. Not sure what the rules are and if against it, but an ATC refusing to help someone desperate on the radio which would lead in a couple of deaths would certainly not play well in the evening news anywhere.

Fuji_Abound wrote:

I wonder what happnes if you desperately need a recovery,

Before you ask Jan, I believe the term recovery comes from the RAF….along with a few other peculiarly British aviation terms! I believe it originally meant landing back where you came from, but it seems to be applied to all landings…

YPJT, United Arab Emirates

I think a pilot with some basic instrument training will do a better job with an SRA than an ILS. There is a fair bit to co-ordination with an ILS and grounds for “confusion” whereas with an SRA you are hand held all the way down – watch the AI and heading, deal with the usual speed, power, issues and that is about it.

I think anyone who has not flown an SRA and who might play with the weather will do no harm giving one a go in VMC.

Yes, I would have thought the controller would take you as low as you want in an emergency situation. (?). Moroever how often is the base totally on the deck, caught out and it is a cloud break you want and that isnt going to be very often below 500 feet unless you have got it horribly wrong and totally ignored all the TAFs. After all I was thinking of the pilot who has climbed / got himself on top of a solid undercast and needs a way out of trouble.

I wonder working London Info in an emergency situation whether they would give you a hand off with vectors for a SRA or would expect you to attempt an ILS? What is their procedure?

Last Edited by Fuji_Abound at 22 Nov 14:56
Before you ask Jan,

Thanks, Anthony, really appreciated. The RAF seems to be a really strong source of folklore, and who knows some of it might even make sense…

Luckily I could work out the misspelt “happiness” for myself

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

I wonder working London Info in an emergency situation whether they would give you a hand off with vectors for a SRA or would expect you to attempt an ILS? What is their procedure?

You will never get any “official” vectors from London info, but they would obviously provide guidance to the nearest suitable SRA facility.
I have personally heard heading information given to aircraft from London info, but this is thought to be derived from information passed from nearby ATC radar controllers. I believe however that they do have access to a “traffic monitor”

Alternatively they could redirect you to D&D for initial location advice prior to hand off for vectoring

Last Edited by flybymike at 22 Nov 17:16
Egnm, United Kingdom

During my initial PPL training my instructor had my fly a PAR into the military airfield of Schleswig in Germany. We were in a Cessna 172 and I just had to follow the constant flow of observations “on center line, slightly to the right, on glidepath, slighly below …” and correct accordingly.

Frequent travels around Europe

Jan_Olieslagers wrote:

happiness

I think you mean the misspelt “happens” Jan.

EGTK Oxford

flybymike wrote:

I believe however that they do have access to a “traffic monitor”

They have a radar feed on the side of their desk. It isn’t right in front of them but is available for use if needed.

EGTK Oxford
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