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A solution for "Non EU Operator" in EASA FCL?

Peter, I don’t understand the hysteria regarding NDB approaches and holds…especially with an RMI…no more difficult than a VOR….just less accurate

Valerio, I’m a relatively new FAA IR holder and will need to do the EASA IRT at some point….I had planned to do an assessment at Rate One Aviation at Gloucester last week but couldn’t make my diary work….I guess I will need a bit of EASA education and a few mock flight tests first….so I am planning to do that this year…but even if I was confident in my knowledge an skills right now, I don’t think the UK CAA is setup yet to allow direct booking of an IR examiner…and I’m not sure they even have the correct forms ready…although I understand guidance material has been sent to the IREs already

YPJT, United Arab Emirates

I don’t understand the hysteria regarding NDB approaches and holds…especially with an RMI…no more difficult than a VOR….just less accurate

The inaccuracy of the ADF bearing (even on an RMI) makes NDB approaches difficult to fly because – especially at a coastal location – you get a huge swing between about 2D and about 5D. I recall 20-30 degrees at Shoreham, Lydd, Manston, Bournemouth, etc. Now, a smart pilot will establish the heading at say 7D and just fly on, but you aren’t supposed to do that in the IRT. You are required to track the bearing as indicated. Also, if more than 5 degrees off at the FAF you are supposed to go around; in reality this is virtually impossible so the examiner has to “look away” at that point.

So the Q boils down to how sure you can be the examiner will let things go. I am not exactly keen on failing tests because of the resulting hassle, never mind the costs.

In reality of course everybody who flies for real will fly an NDB approach using the GPS (probably in the OBS mode) but that isn’t the point, and it isn’t going to be available officially until the UK gets an official GPS substitution rule, or GPS overlays, or whatever, and none of that is even remotely anywhere near the official horizon. So the IR examiner has to play the official game. And the FTOs have to train people to pass the test.

This could be circumvented at certain Spanish and possibly Greek FTOs (where NDBs were never examined so little time would be wasted trainig them) but the Spanish one is now run from the UK (according to UK chat site postings by a well known “GA personality”) so I guess the option is lost. The Spanish option was popular for IR conversions which could be completely done in 5-7 days. I visited the Greek one but in the end could not be bothered to spend time (a lot more than 7 days) down there.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

What is the examiner going to do if the airport where you do your skill test doesn’t have an NDB?

I don’t know. It hasn’t happened to me yet…

Or does every swedish IFR airport have NDBs?

Not all, but most do. Full procedure ILSs are usually based on an NDB racetrack.

An ADF is still a legal requirement for IFR in Sweden, btw.

Unless desperate, I would never fly an NDB approach for real in poor visibility unless I had a slaved gyro.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Just to confirm: it is no longer a legal requirement to have an ADF fitted to an aircraft for ANY IR test in the UK. The ADF is now dead.

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