Loss of control being a hot topic, the NBAA Single pilot Working Group produced this video.
This manoeuvre used to be part of ab initio training for steep approaches back, well back, in the day. Hard wiring wannabes for stabilised approaches with flaps hadn’t yet entered the curriculum.
Yes, it is a rating post PPL. As Cobalt says, EASA have brought in this stupid 40 hours requirement which is being challenged.
It is a shame more people don’t get access to some Aeros. There is no need to do all the extreme stuff, but having experienced and being confident to deal with unusual attitude recoveries, and incipient / fully developed spinning is a huge pilot confidence builder. During revalidations etc. I find a lot of people aren’t even comfortable with holding the aircraft in a fully developed stall beyond the initial symptoms.
40 hours after obtaining the licence. PIC or not depends on how you read this atrociously written regulation, but given that we have this useless rating requirement at least in part thanks to Germany, where the pre-EASA regs required PIC time, it is safe to say it is PIC time.
I will check but you need some minimum PIC perhaps before you can apply for the aerobatic rating?
There are some ATOs with Fireflys so in theory you could do your PPL in one, but it would be expensive. They are nose draggers so no need for tailwheel endorsement.
I know of one European airline that is requiring you carry out formal upset recovery training (one week at Goodwood with extensive ground school plus flying in a CE 172, Firefly and Extra 300), before you start your type rating. Presumably in preparation for the new ICAO requirement, although the FAA expects this to be in approved simulators, and an approved course. In theory more wannabes may need to show aerobatic experience as a plus.
I agree with @LeSving. With half fuel and an 80 kg pilot the A152 (O-235) or FRA150 (RR O-240) climb just fine and teach proper energy management. They will easily do a roll, a loop, a wing over, a snap, and an Immelmann or half Cuban in 2,000 ft, by which time I’m ready for some straight and level. You can read most of War and Peace while waiting for an aileron roll, but these inexpensive Cessnas do lovely snaps and spins.
what_next wrote:
Climb for ten minutes, do a loop and a barrel roll and back down you are.
Well, good enough for me 
A little bit of gentlemans aerobatics is just fine, and fun. Inverted flat spin could be fun 30 years ago perhaps, but not today. Besides, there are lots of stuff in between. An RV-4 has more than enough power to keep going, even though it’s only +6, -4
This video never goes old :-smile:
LeSving wrote:
It can be done i a C-152 Aerobat or similar (+6, -3 g rated aircraft)
I know. Been there, done it. Climb for ten minutes, do a loop and a barrel roll and back down you are. Every 5-Euro rollercoaster ride offers more thrill than that. And this is why so few people care about this kind of aerobatics (in my opinion). And the interesting kind where you can do three consecutive inverted upward spins is simply out of financial reach for all but some lucky few.
what_next wrote:
A dual 30-minute training sortie on an Extra 300 costs close to 500 Euros in my part of the world
An Extra 300 is a top aerobatics world championship class of aircraft. There are countless other aircraft. Basic aerobatics (aerobatics rating) requires no negative G, no advanced maneuvers, just the basics. It can be done i a C-152 Aerobat or similar (+6, -3 g rated aircraft)
Peter wrote:
What % of PPL students move on to aeros?
Less than one percent around here I would guess. And it has nothing to do with legislation or EASA or anything else. Just money. Capable aerobatic aircraft are terribly expensive to own, operate or hire. A dual 30-minute training sortie on an Extra 300 costs close to 500 Euros in my part of the world… one can get a full week of all-inclusive holidays for less than that. And not-so-capable aerobatic aircraft tend to lose their appeal before people even finish their course.
A former instructor colleague of mine who originally came from Czechoslovakia used to organise training courses there for small groups of pilots. All of them came back disappointed (except from the food-and-beer experience). Every half hour training session consisted of fife minutes of aerobatics and 25 minutes climbing back to a safe altitude. Which seems to be the general way of doing aerobatics in “affordable” aerobatic aircraft. Not one of the pilots who did these courses in Czechoslovakia bothered to get the aerobatic rating entered into his license.
