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Cessna 400 TTx deliveries started (and production ends)

But flying in CAVOK conditions and presumably not noticing the auto throttle is not working is not an IRT...

No it certainly isn't. I'm wondering if the accident with Turkish Airlines 737 in Amsterdam had a similar reason, don't remember reading any accident report.

ESSB, Stockholm Bromma

I am fairly sure I would not today pass the UK CAA initial IRT, if you just dragged me out of bed and made me fly it, with no practice. Maybe a 50% chance, reducing to 10% if there were NDB procedures in it.

But commercial crews are in theory tested to standards all the time (at least according to the training captains I know in the United States, I'd be surprised if it were different here). Private pilots not so much. The thing is that according to the western instructors hired by Korean airlines, the crews aren't weak in instrument procedures but...

But flying in CAVOK conditions and presumably not noticing the auto throttle is not working is not an IRT...

... but they find this stuff far more difficult, including basic hand flying like crosswind landings. And the hypothesis is that with SK completely lacking GA there's basically a serious absence of the basic "learning to fly" bit.

Andreas IOM

The C400 has just been EASA certified.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Really? It was EASA certified in 2009, does it take so long to re-certify it with new avionics?

Biggin Hill

Is the TTX shipping with the Thermawing and does it work acceptably nowadays?

They had loads of problems with it, all the way back to the Lancair days (with the panels burning out, though the vendor disputed what Air Touring were alleging) and the issues reportedly continued all the way, with the large alternator (5-10kW or so) having an inadequate drive arrangement.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I assume you would want to know more about Thermawing, and was not just lazy on googling?

Cessna website
“Certified with the TKS Ice Protection system for flight into known icing conditions”

I have a 400TT that was born with Thermawing, but later converted to (non certified) TKS before my time. I understand that the Thermawing system works very well, so I am not sure why it was converted, but I would guess that it would have been an STC issue with the move to EASA reg.

Last Edited by mmgreve at 24 Jan 07:58
EGTR

Promotional material is usually of little use, which is why I asked here. There are some TTX owners here. With respect, I know how to use google.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Is the TTX shipping with the Thermawing

Them advertising TKS and no Themawing on their site probably means no…

Cessna has decided to go for the TKS and upgraded from the old “stick-on” TKS panels to new, flush-mount ones, and got the FIKI certification on the back of that. Thermawing is still available as a retrofit to non-TKS equipped specimens.

For some time, Columbia sold their aircraft including a later Thermawing installation in the price. IIRC, after the reputational issues created by a fire (resulting, as I understand it, from insufficient clearance between the cables and the metal mesh in the stablilser surface), they then gave owners the option to use TKS instead.

When Cessna bought Columbia out of Chapter 11 bankruptcy, they decided to honour that commitment, but only offered TKS.

I know that because I flew two aircraft who did go through the upgrade process around that time.

Last Edited by Cobalt at 24 Jan 19:18
Biggin Hill

A ferry pilot friend of mine has just told me he ferried two TTXs to Europe, in 2010, and both of them had TKS.

He reports: “It had two flow rates as I recall. On the low rate it wouldn’t really keep the ice at bay. On the high rate, it worked great, but only lasted about 30 minutes.”

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

A ferry pilot friend of mine has just told me he ferried two TTXs to Europe, in 2010, and both of them had TKS.

He reports: “It had two flow rates as I recall. On the low rate it wouldn’t really keep the ice at bay. On the high rate, it worked great, but only lasted about 30 minutes.”

The TTx was first revealed to the public in 2011, so he will have been flying the Cessna TT. Main difference is the G2000 vs G1000, but TTx also introduced a FIKI TKS system which is important in this context.

Your friend will have been flying with the non-FIKI system which only holds 3usg. I have the same system and it works very well, also at low setting where you have 60min endurance. Importantly, you need to turn it on before you get ice. High setting will be needed if you forgot and ice has already built up

The full FIKI system in the TTx has 10usg capacity and gives 2.6 hours endurance at normal flow rate – half that on high setting.

Last Edited by mmgreve at 26 Jan 07:20
EGTR
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