This discussion always goes the same way. Sure somebody flew one to Kathmandu. I once shared a hangar with a guy who flew a UL to Kathmandu, but what does that tell us? So why are there so few STCs for Robins? It’s simply due to low demand, which in turn will be due to the usage profile together with what one might call the owner wealth profile. If you buy one, you have to make sure it does your mission profile “out of the box” because much else will be a hassle. And a Robin does do the mission profile for a lot of people, out of the box. But, Snoopy asked about IFR which – while very feasible in France with very basic kit – generally involves spending some money.
Well Peter it was you who said that French club pilots don’t go anywhere and only fly in great weather. It is not the first time you have written this. I simply challenged it with some facts.
As you say Snoopy asked about IFR. To repeat what I thought was a simple answer. Yes you can if it is suitably equipped. However, STCs for modern toys are in short supply. The Aiglon is not a new aircraft and has not been produced for some time.
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Snoopy asked about IFR/IMC, flight plans & airways & visible moisture, the Aiglon does that, at least the two based in London but there are Robins by NZ Alpha Aviation 2000Series and the rebranded French Diesel Series, including on N-reg & VX-reg
The wood & fabric Robins, I have no idea? I have yet to see one in Clouds or Alpha TMA but I have not seen any yet
With 320k€, I would have gone for these ones: STOL, tow hook, IFR with good useful load & cruise…
There was two others that got sold quickly in same price range (STOL+LPV)
Peter wrote:
Robin STCs is a huge topic which has led many up a looong garden path of wasted money. This guy paid more than most, losing his plane in the process.
Has this not changed recently? I was recently discussing putting an engine analyzer into my airplane which has no EASA STC. They said it is a question of s single approval and a few hundred Euros to get it approved. When this happened with the lost Robin, it was not possible to get single approvals, but I understand that now it is?
I reckon it will be difficult to put stuff like AP’s and possibly EFIS but for GPS’s I am not sure what the situation is. And if you see planes like the DR400 Ecoflyer with full EFIS and STEC 55x, then something must have happened recently, as I’ve never seen such an installation on a Robin before.
The new Robin 401 can come with a choice of avionics including full IFR kit as can the new piston engine versions.
There was even talk that they were looking at a thermal (electric) deicing system. How far they have got with that I don’t know.
I have seen Robin 400/180 Regents with A/P.
I have also met many French airline pilots, one flew for Flybe, who did their IR training in wood and fabric Robins so they must have existed.
I think the main problem is the new toys which Garmin seem to have a near monopoly on and they don’t see any business sense to getting STCs for this small market.
I have also seen some great videos from someone on here flying a wood and fabric Robin IFR admittedly in the UK.
Like many aircraft manufacturers Robin aircraft have had their ups and downs.
I have no idea what their current financial situation is but normally with Robin if it was in financial trouble now the FFA and the French clubs would be talking about it and at present they are not. A few years they were and there were massive efforts by the aviation community in France to ensure the future of the company.
Robin is a small company and aircraft are hand made so you will appreciate they don’t make many each year compared to other manufacturers.
But at least it hasn’t yet been sold to the Chinese.
I think Robin suffered the same as others with early Thielert and Centurion engines but AIUI since Centurion became part of Continental things have greatly improved.
I notice around here that many clubs and private owners are having their aircraft renovated rather than buying new. The ones I have seen particularlty those of the Aeroclub de Tranche sur Mer one would have a hard time telling new ones from those which have been renovated.
gallois wrote:
There was even talk that they were looking at a thermal (electric) deicing system. How far they have got with that I don’t know.
Columbia / Corvalis offered thermawing. I found it a rather interesting installation. However, EASA never certified it. so if someone has a FIKI Columbia he has do de-activate thermawing if they take it to EASA reg. Happened to one of them here. Probably one of the best reasons ever to stay N-reg.
gallois wrote:
Like many aircraft manufacturers Robin aircraft have had their ups and downs.
The history of French aviation manufacturing is fascinating to read. They have produced some of the IMHO best designs, but almost never went mass product (with the prominent example of some Robin designs). I still find the Robin HR100 a very interesting airplane, which I am sure inspired the TB10/20 series. If you look at the history of the A320, clearly the Dassault Mercure is it’s direct parent, even if the design was picked up by a different company. Jodels are the grandparents of most Robin designs, and if you ever learnt about systems of a Caravelle, you know all basic hydraulic layouts of French produced airliners including Concorde and the early Airbusses.
Personally I think Robin are one of the best airplane makers Europe has ever seen. But like the other French GA makers, they have small series of nice planes which never were made in sufficient quantity to warrant serious STC efforts by any avionic maker, with the possible exception of the DR400.
Maybe today’s Robin owners should have a go at talking to Garmin and the other usual suspects about an AML under EASA based on what they have for the DR400. As a OEM they could probably do that.
EASA Garmin G5 STC AML lists the plane. Two G5s + GNS430 should make a nice basic IR trainer. I’ll take a closer look at this plane.
