Ibra wrote:
serious IFR should get a Turbo de-iced with CAPS
You obviously forgot the pressurized cabin to go high.
Unfortunately, that reduces the list of airplanes you would consider to be suitable for “serious IFR” to exactly zero.
Obviously there is no market for airplanes to do “Serious IFR” ;-)
Ok I gave up, I will go for turbo twin pressurized de-ice with chute to fly it in CAVOK locally 
Indeed the set is close to zero with top end price tag, it was just my sarcasm on serious flying…
Ibra wrote:
turbo twin pressurized de-ice with chute to fly it in CAVOK locally
Don’t forget the auto land, integrated AED, TCAS-V (that is the level with integrated sidewinders to shot down targets when collision can not be avoided differently), the soft cushion and the comfy chair … ;-)
Haha, that would be extra bonus, but MAC risk is a lot reduced by capabaility of flying inside some nasty weather or above it 
TCAS for punching through fontal CB in freezing temperatures is really “nice to have” while comfy chair is “must have”
I get the impression that these €200k+ “2-seaters + toothbrush” are the aviation equivalent of coffee bar cruisers in the old motorcycling world, where you spent all day polishing all the chrome on the 1000cc v-twin with Solvol Autosol and then went cruising the bars on a sunny day
Their sales are very low.
The reality is that 200k buys you a much more capable used plane and – crucially – one in a good condition, and leaves you many thousands spare for 100LL. What you don’t get is (a) the street cred and (b) the farm strip capability, but I suspect the countries where GA has collapsed into a strip based UL scene (Spain, Italy…) don’t have many pilots with 200k+ anyway.
Frankly I don’t agree.
And I don’t understand why the Elixir is not offered as a UL first, then as an certified.
They are plenty of potential customers in France for a 200k UL which allows you to
More than customers for a 100k certified.
These people are used to life being easy due to their money. They don’t want to fill their little free time with paperwork and constraints.
Just VL3s that are the Rolls of ULs are built one per week. I think @jvdo is the expert here.
Jujupilote wrote:
They are plenty of potential customers in France for a 200k UL which allows you tospend a weekend in corsica with no medical,
minimal training and no maintenance oversight.
leave it in a hangar for the winter and turn the key in spring to go to, say Cannes
More than customers for a 100k certified.
These people are used to life being easy due to their money. They don’t want to fill their little free time with paperwork and constraints.
Indeed, at least what I saw from many owners in UL scene (my auntie circle of friends in France/Congo who fly ULM mostly), many have/had own terrain+house+microlight (about 1m$ hobby), mostly flying off GA grid with zero interaction with AMEs/CAAs/ATOs since 15 years
What this tells us is that the market is highly segmented
So why are the sales still low, when much of France should be flying these types?
And for similar reasons much of the UK, but UK GA has very little money in it.
Peter wrote:
I get the impression that these €200k+ “2-seaters + toothbrush” are the aviation equivalent of coffee bar cruisers in the old motorcycling world, where you spent all day polishing all the chrome on the 1000cc v-twin with Solvol Autosol and then went cruising the bars on a sunny day
I’d rather say, they are the aviation equivalent of 50hp compact cars: They would actually be a rational choice for most as the majority of all flights are with 1-2 persons anyways and for the few occasions where you need more than 2 seats you would be cheaper off renting one.
But similar to people buying a SUV because they fear the hassle of renting once a year when they need more space, pilots tend to buy 4 seaters.
The reference to the used market alternatives are also very similar to cars: Absolutely would most car buyers be better off to buy a 10 year old well maintained used car. It’s just a majority who don’t want it for completely irrational reasons.
Jujupilote wrote:
And I don’t understand why the Elixir is not offered as a UL first, then as a certified.
They are plenty of potential customers in France for a 200k UL which allows you to
I agree, in this way, they would have been selling a lot more.
A lot of UL manufacturers now offer certified versions too.
I think the main reason they are selling it as a plane, is to sell it to the French aeroclubs for PPL training. Just like Sonaca does with flight schools.
I guess they won’t sell a lot of planes to private owners.
Jujupilote wrote:
Just VL3s that are the Rolls of ULs are built one per week. I think @jvdo is the expert here.
Indeed, VL3 is building 1 UL a week and I think they already sold more than 15 VL3s this year powered by a Rotax 915 (250k+).
WT9 is another type that is very popular in France, the serial numbers are in the 700s right now.
I agree a lot of pilots just want an easy solution, even persons like me who really love to fly and don’t bother getting another license or doing some more paperwork. Why would I buy the “plane” version of the WT9 if the UL version can do the same thing with lower costs, much more freedom & flexibility?
Of course I agree to buy a plane if you have the budget for a Cirrus, Beech,… But flying a Warrior or C172 instead of a VL3 or WT9? No thanks.
