We have several great threads on the frustrations of buying, and some on selling. Here is a good one.
Sadly most sellers are clueless and – perhaps due to basic illiteracy, or just not knowing how to make a PDF – don’t produce anything like an info pack (scans of logbooks etc) and get irritated when asked for basic info. Then you get a % of planes which are not really for sale.
I guess this is one reason brokers exist.
We had a discussion yesterday on the Zoom session on the topic of buying a used plane. One point made is that people do the same things with planes as they do with cars, houses, whatever… human nature never changes.
I think sb = somebody and sth = something?
@WilliamF
You wrote:
“As a seller, I don’t let anyone else sit in the left seat until it’s paid for. “
But I distinctly remember flying left seat before money changed hands to even an offer was made…. :)
But I distinctly remember flying left seat before money changed hands to even an offer was made…. :)
Ha ha yes, I’ve a wife and a kid and one on the way so I have had to evolve. Also with C19 there are other angles to collecting folks at the airport and doing demo flights.
I listed my plane recently on Planecheck and had several calls from people telling me they’re in Monaco or some such and if I would agree for a part cash deal. They didn’t seem to know much about planes. Anyone know what kind of scam this is?
We’re trying to sell our syndicate Jodel. I’d expect questions. I’d never expect a deposit. We’ve had no “tyrekicker” problems.
I’d want to see logbooks before examining the plane. Trial flight would be last item.
I was involved in buying a Bolkow 2 years ago. After all the above checks, we agreed to the asking price.
Then one member of the new Syndicate raised the risk of the seller doing a runner with the money. I payed it. I understand that two of the syndicate had previously backed out of a deal at the last minute, after paying a deposit, and had managed to get it back.
After I collected the aircraft, the situation deteriorated, and I bought the two out, after ~1 hour flown by them in the 9 months.
I’d never pay a deposit before looking at a car. I’d never expect to fly left seat or land on a trial flight.
The deposit is paid after a visual inspection usually to an escrow agent.
The range of used GA aircraft prices is perhaps 10K to 40M, and the payment process is obviously quite different over that range. Cash payment in full after inspection is my method of choice, based on my practice on two planes to date. The first was bought from a friend, the second got a thorough pre-buy that could never have found intermittent electrical problems that subsequently took a year to trace and solve.
I don’t spend more on a plane than I can afford to lose without any impact on my plans for the future.
What % of piston GA uses an escrow agent? I’ve almost never heard of it, in Europe, for pistons. Maybe for jets, etc. The escrow agent has no means of checking that the plane is as described.
I would also never pay a deposit to view or inspect a plane. A request for a deposit is very likely to be a scam, nowadays. There are scammers everywhere. For example, malicious signups on EuroGA have gone from ~1% in 2012 to ~30% today. Scamming is becoming the #1 profession. Of course we have a previous thread on for-sale scamming too 
I suspect there are not so many tyre kickers around (if indeed that is so) simply because few people are active in GA, due to the virus situation. Well, as posted recently, aeroclubs are busy, but that is probably because lots of people are on the 80% furlough so they have money (no travelling to work) and lots of time, and the economic collapse has not yet hit them. I am sure gliding clubs are even more busy. But to think about buying a plane you need to be higher up the scene…
I wonder what the point of putting “no tyre kickers” in the advert. I’m sure tyre kickers take no notice of such comments anyway!
I think a few people might have missed the point of what I was saying, but JasonC was on the ball with it. A buyer is very welcome to come and look at an aircraft without paying a deposit. However no experienced seller will allow you to proceed to a pre purchase inspection without an agreement in place and a deposit paid. You can eyeball it without skin in the game. Once there are tools involved there needs to be skin in the game. For low value aircraft or unairworthy aircraft a seller may vary this.
These are the norms for high value aircraft.
Edit – Typo
